Law Suit Filed Against Collier Anesthesia and Wolford College Nurse Anesthesia Program

Originally Posted by jwk

Fascinating debate this will turn out to be.

"Students should be paid". Wow. Every student? Nursing students? Radiology students? RT students? AA students? PT students? Medical students? Where is the line drawn?

do i expect to be paid? no. i didn't back then, either. i naively thought every n-a school was like that. then i graduated and moved to sela and soon had students from the local program rotating through my hospital who couldn't be left alone per hospital and went home at 3p mon-thurs (no matter what) with a "class-day" on fridays. considering the last two years of my program were m-f clinicals (hoping to be home by 8p) with in-house call, plus the fact that never saw the inside of a classroom during those last two years, i started thinking to myself that either "they had it real good" or "i had it pretty crappy". i've since come to the conclusion that i had it pretty crappy. and many of the late afternoons that i probably should've been sent home, only to be told to relieve a resident and therefore stay to finish his/her case until 9-10pm, it really begins to wear on ya. so... considering the dept of anesthesia hired 16 crna's after what occurred (meaning that junior and senior srna's pretty muched staffed an operating room that presently has 17 crna's when before it only had 1), then i'm start to think that two years x's 16 crna salaries, they saved a crap-load of money off my labor. oh... and it was labor, as i basically figured out anesthesia rather than being taught in the or. couple this with the fact that many of the mda's staffing us srna's were total dh's, then yeah... i'd appreciate seeing some of that money that was saved.

Originally Posted by MmacFN

I was staff my last 1.5 years.

It made a huge difference. I learned how to use drugs that others wouldnt let you use. I got to learn in real time. The only time I saw an MDA was during induction, they didnt come for emergence.

So, as a student, you extubated patients with no other anesthesia personnel present?

Absolutely. After the 1st year of someone being with me all the time (CRNA or MDA) the next 1.5 years i did it all on my own.

Originally Posted by dlwhite7

So, as a student, you extubated patients with no other anesthesia personnel present?

Originally Posted by dlwhite7

So, as a student, you extubated patients with no other anesthesia personnel present?

Me too. Many times induced alone as well. I can remember starting a CEA and after the drapes were up the MDA came and asked if I got it in the right hole.

me too. if you're a competent provider, this shouldn't even be questioned...in my opinion.

This will be interesting. I have read the complaint that was filed and the relationship between Wolford and Collier anesthesia is rather odd according to the claims made. The complaint alleges that Wolford and Collier are owned and operated by the same people....that those who hire, fire, schedule and control the finances for Wolford College are the same people who own, operate, hire, fire and schedule employees for Collier Anesthesia. Not being familiar with Wolford, I did what all good modern day seekers of knowledge do...I googled them.

Wolford as it turns out is an institution started by Thomas Cook, MD, a longtime partner in Collier Anesthesia, P.A., who enlisted the assistance of Norman R. Wolford EdD, CRNA, in development of the curriculum. It exists solely as a privately owned school of nurse anesthesia, admitting 50 students biannually.

It is the unique relationship between Wolford and Collier which potentially gives this lawsuit legs. Even if the suit survives to a judgment in favor of the plaintiffs (students) (which is FAR from a certainty), it is not at all likely that as a result of any ruling in this case SRNA programs or anesthesia groups providing clinical experience will be required to pay SRNAs for services rendered. Rather, this case is a "one off" where the SRNA program is, for all intents and purposes, also the anesthesia group, and they are allegedly intentionally using their student body to further their private business mission......the business of giving anesthesia in exchange for compensation.

This is quite a bit different than the situation where an anesthesia program sends their students to a third party clinical site where they are then used in a role that, had they not been there, an additional staff member would have to be paid to fill the role. The Fair Labor Standards Act, and other state and federal labor laws, apply only to entities and individuals who have an employer/employee relationship. Just because a SRNA is performing clinical duties which would require a paid employee in their absence does not make them an employee generally speaking. Even in the Wolford lawsuit where students were apparently relied upon by design to fill the role of paid CRNAs in every aspect, the question of whether or not they were actually employees is going to be the center of the case. If they were not employees, then the lawsuit must be dismissed since the Fair labor Standards Act violations on which the lawsuit is predicated only exist if the Plaintiffs were employees of Wolford and/or Collier.

Wolford http://www.wolford.edu/about/history.php

Also, Cook is named in the suit, Wolford is not. While the school bears his name, Wolford does not run it.

Wolford is also one of 2 schools NOT regionally accredited which really is a disgrace.

Originally Posted by gregsto

This will be interesting. I have read the complaint that was filed and the relationship between Wolford and Collier anesthesia is rather odd according to the claims made. The complaint alleges that Wolford and Collier are owned and operated by the same people....that those who hire, fire, schedule and control the finances for Wolford College are the same people who own, operate, hire, fire and schedule employees for Collier Anesthesia. Not being familiar with Wolford, I did what all good modern day seekers of knowledge do...I googled them.

Wolford as it turns out is an institution started by Thomas Cook, MD, a longtime partner in Collier Anesthesia, P.A., who enlisted the assistance of Norman R. Wolford EdD, CRNA, in development of the curriculum. It exists solely as a privately owned school of nurse anesthesia, admitting 50 students biannually.

It is the unique relationship between Wolford and Collier which potentially gives this lawsuit legs. Even if the suit survives to a judgment in favor of the plaintiffs (students) (which is FAR from a certainty), it is not at all likely that as a result of any ruling in this case SRNA programs or anesthesia groups providing clinical experience will be required to pay SRNAs for services rendered. Rather, this case is a "one off" where the SRNA program is, for all intents and purposes, also the anesthesia group, and they are allegedly intentionally using their student body to further their private business mission......the business of giving anesthesia in exchange for compensation.

This is quite a bit different than the situation where an anesthesia program sends their students to a third party clinical site where they are then used in a role that, had they not been there, an additional staff member would have to be paid to fill the role. The Fair Labor Standards Act, and other state and federal labor laws, apply only to entities and individuals who have an employer/employee relationship. Just because a SRNA is performing clinical duties which would require a paid employee in their absence does not make them an employee generally speaking. Even in the Wolford lawsuit where students were apparently relied upon by design to fill the role of paid CRNAs in every aspect, the question of whether or not they were actually employees is going to be the center of the case. If they were not employees, then the lawsuit must be dismissed since the Fair labor Standards Act violations on which the lawsuit is predicated only exist if the Plaintiffs were employees of Wolford and/or Collier.

Wolford http://www.wolford.edu/about/history.php

Originally Posted by MmacFN

Wolford is also one of 2 schools NOT regionally accredited which really is a disgrace.

So apparently the COA does not care whether schools are regionally accredited? THAT is the disgrace!

Originally Posted by MmacFN

Wolford is also one of 2 schools NOT regionally accredited which really is a disgrace.

Hey Mike,
This has probably been reviewed before, but I'm drawing a blank. What is the difference between a regional accreditation, and the accreditation that is bestowed by the COA?

Originally Posted by Skeebum

Hey Mike,
This has probably been reviewed before, but I'm drawing a blank. What is the difference between a regional accreditation, and the accreditation that is bestowed by the COA?

The U.S. Department of Education recognizes Accrediting Agencies which are private educational associations of regional or national scope, develop evaluation criteria and conduct peer evaluations to assess whether or not those criteria are met. Institutions and/or programs that request an agency's evaluation and that meet an agency's criteria are then "accredited" by that agency.

There are different categories of recognized Accrediting Agencies, including Regional and National Institutional Accrediting Agencies and Specialized Accrediting Agencies. In order to receive Title IV program eligibility (Federal Student Loan programs), institutions of higher learning must have the required approved accreditation. For the vast majority of colleges and universities this will require accreditation from one of the Regional and National Institutional Accrediting Agencies. Most of the time this is obtained from a regional accreditation agency which accredits colleges and universities located in specific states, i.e. the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools, The Higher Learning Commission.

The COA is a DOE recognized Specialized Accrediting Agency. However, accreditation by the COA does NOT make an institution eligible for Title IV programs UNLESS the school of anesthesia is hospital based or a free standing nurse anesthesia training program. In other words, it may not be associated with a college or university that provides any other educational programs other than a masters or doctorate in nurse anesthesia. In addition to Title IV program eligibility, accreditation is generally necessary for other accredited institutions to accept credit transfers or to recognize educational experience. Accreditation of a nurse anesthesia program by the COA alone is a rarity, but as long as you obtain a state license and you get COA accreditation, anyone can start a CRNA school and offer a masters and/or doctorate degree.

Originally Posted by MmacFN

Wolford is also one of 2 schools NOT regionally accredited which really is a disgrace.

What is the other one?

Gooding Institute down in Panama City

Originally Posted by gregsto

What is the other one?

I believe it is Gooding in Panama City, Fl.

yup

Originally Posted by 5263rn

I believe it is Gooding in Panama City, Fl.

Yup

Also it is important to understand that regional accreditation means your degree 'travels'. If you get a masters from wolford or gooding any other university can deny your degree when you apply for a doctorate. Additionally, if you did a doctorate at either of these two any other place (say you are looking to get on as a faculty somewhere) can actually deny your doctorate since it isnt regionally accredited. Its a major issue and really an embarrassment.

Originally Posted by gregsto

The U.S. Department of Education recognizes Accrediting Agencies which are private educational associations of regional or national scope, develop evaluation criteria and conduct peer evaluations to assess whether or not those criteria are met. Institutions and/or programs that request an agency's evaluation and that meet an agency's criteria are then "accredited" by that agency.

There are different categories of recognized Accrediting Agencies, including Regional and National Institutional Accrediting Agencies and Specialized Accrediting Agencies. In order to receive Title IV program eligibility (Federal Student Loan programs), institutions of higher learning must have the required approved accreditation. For the vast majority of colleges and universities this will require accreditation from one of the Regional and National Institutional Accrediting Agencies. Most of the time this is obtained from a regional accreditation agency which accredits colleges and universities located in specific states, i.e. the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools, The Higher Learning Commission.

The COA is a DOE recognized Specialized Accrediting Agency. However, accreditation by the COA does NOT make an institution eligible for Title IV programs UNLESS the school of anesthesia is hospital based or a free standing nurse anesthesia training program. In other words, it may not be associated with a college or university that provides any other educational programs other than a masters or doctorate in nurse anesthesia. In addition to Title IV program eligibility, accreditation is generally necessary for other accredited institutions to accept credit transfers or to recognize educational experience. Accreditation of a nurse anesthesia program by the COA alone is a rarity, but as long as you obtain a state license and you get COA accreditation, anyone can start a CRNA school and offer a masters and/or doctorate degree.

Also you can review the board members at Wolford.. It's made up entirely of Collier Anesthesia. A little conflict of interest that all board members of a Crna school are anesthesiologist.

Originally Posted by MmacFN

Yup

Also it is important to understand that regional accreditation means your degree 'travels'. If you get a masters from wolford or gooding any other university can deny your degree when you apply for a doctorate. Additionally, if you did a doctorate at either of these two any other place (say you are looking to get on as a faculty somewhere) can actually deny your doctorate since it isnt regionally accredited. Its a major issue and really an embarrassment.

I was actually rather stunned to read that Wolford also offers a doctorate (entirely done online), which is ALSO "accredited" by the COA alone. It bears repeating that the ONLY thing other than allowing a graduate to sit for the CRNA board exam that COA accreditation is good for in this situation is eligibility for a federal student loan. It won't get your degree or transcripts recognized at a regionally accredited college or university.

It would be interesting to hear from any Wolford graduates regarding their experiences. It would appear that the clinical experience, despite issues highlighted in the lawsuit, is comprehensive and according to their website they boast a 93% pass rate for first time board exam takers.

I'd respond with a coherent argument but I'm too tired from being overworked in clinical. lol
That said, Wolford is not a bad school. It has been a target for criticism for a number of years, but in the end their students pass boards and get jobs so all the internet chatter ends up being pretty baseless. Haters gonna hate.

It's interesting to me that this is just coming up now. SRNA's are used as free labor in schools all over the country - it's hardly a new thing. Certainly schools that are regionally accredited with university affiliations do the same thing, right?