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yoga
12-29-2006, 06:46 PM
Some interesting things happened this week regarding "titles" or names people call themselves.

First, there was a heated discussion on flashchat the other night regarding whether anyone who has a doctorate should or should not be called "doctor" in the clinical setting (other than MD or DO). This discussion was related to the proposed DNS or whatever doctorate, being discussed as a requirement for advance practice nursing. One side of this issue thought that the only people who should be called "doctor" should be MDs or DOs. The other side was not so quick to make such a statement, especially if the doctorate is an earned PhD.

Second situation. In my position as administrator of a surgery center, I was interviewing an RN for a perioperative nurse position. She had no idea of my background. She said she was a nurse anesthetist, but what she really meant to say is that she was a nurse aesthetician. Of course, I questioned what she said and she quickly corrected herself, but she then told me she was certified as a "sedation nurse". By the way, I didn't hire her and did tell her I was a nurse anesthetist.

Third situation. I heard an OR technician tell a patient that she was her "Nurse". We had words later in the day about that and I showed her the section of California law that states that only an RN can say they are a "nurse:.

Am I being too sensitive, is it a non-issue? What do the rest of you have to say about this.

Jan. (have a JD, but am never called "doctor"

RAYMAN
12-29-2006, 07:50 PM
Ok, I'll bite. I was involved in the discussion the other night, although I wouldn't call it "heated", and did not realize that we were talking about in a strictly patient care setting. The only people in a healthcare setting around patients that should be called "doctor" are physicians. This is the professional thing to do and anything else would only further confuse role identities for patients. I've worked with many docs with whom I was on a first name basis including in the work setting, but in front of patients I always refer to them as Doctor such and such even if they spoke with the patient on a first name basis. It's just professional, denotes a chain of command and some how some way could be beneficial in court I feel.

As far as the nurse aesthetician, lmao, I'm just impressed that she could pronounce aesthetician.

The OR tech.....sounds like you took care of it. Such incidents have resulted in changes to my state's NP act because of patient confusion and them thinking that everyone was their nurse;

armygas
12-29-2006, 08:00 PM
I do think this is an issue. Using improper titles or using a title without putting it into context is very inappropriate and causes confusion. Additionally, with respect to our profession disrespects the struggles of the individuals who came before us and worked so hard to establish the reputation and respect that comes with being a Nurse Anesthetist. IMO it also reveals the character of the individual who needs to embellish their standing to others (it shows lack of self esteem and a lack of integrity).

If someone is a "Doctor" they should ensure they explain exactly what the degree truly means when compared to other professions or when asked. I also believe when we encounter an individual who is embellishing their status we should tactfully correct them (way to go J!). When I complete my degree, I will proudly have on my nametag CRNA, PhD but I will ensure that I also detail the fact that my "Doctor" status is within the field of neuroscience but I am a NURSE Anesthetist. But in the OR my title will be "Mike" or "Mick" but in the academic setting it with be "Dr.". Titles have to be used appropriately.

Finally, if we are not proud to state we are NURSE Anesthetists (and correct those who claim to be) then we weaken the profession. I routinely have to reiterate that I am a Nurse Anesthetist when talking to people (everyone seems to want to say "Oh.... your an anesthesiologist....".

JMTC,
Mick

DebbieC
12-29-2006, 10:04 PM
I knew a Ph.D. psychologist who worked with inpatients doing pre-transplant psych evals, who really thought he was hot shizzle. He always introduced himself as "Dr." to patients. He insisted on always eating in the doctors dining room, etc. I couldn't stand him.

athomas91
12-30-2006, 08:24 AM
i think that it is just as important to educate the public as to be forth-right with them. i think limiting the title of "doctor" is silly - i think that if one earned a doctorate and wants to be called a doctor then they have that rights - along with the responsibility to explain their title and not mislead anyone. it really burns my you know what when we reserve certain titles for certain individuals in the name of the "public" - perhaps we should educated the public and not just assume they are all idiots.

as far as those who aren't nurses or nurse anesthetists utilizing the title -i am completely with Jan on this that it is illegal and they should be called on it.

MmacFN
12-30-2006, 09:57 AM
This is an interesting discussion.


First, while i have incredible respect for those who attain an PhD (not a DnP), I fully beluieve that this degree only confers the title 'Doctor' in the acedemic setting. Really, teaching the public the difference b/t PhD and MD/DO would be near impossible as they could give a shit. When Joe Public walks into the hospital a "Doctor" is a physician and it has been since the beginning of medicine. Adding confusion now in order to satisfy a few peoples ego's seems silly.

When i see people who are not MD/DO demanding to be called "Doctor" in the hospital it screams 'Insecurity" to me. Reminds me of male nurses who wear full length lab coats and don't correct patients when they call them Doctor, there is something underhanded about it.

RN29306
12-30-2006, 10:43 AM
This is an interesting discussion.


First, while i have incredible respect for those who attain an PhD (not a DnP), I fully beluieve that this degree only confers the title 'Doctor' in the acedemic setting. Really, teaching the public the difference b/t PhD and MD/DO would be near impossible as they could give a shit. When Joe Public walks into the hospital a "Doctor" is a physician and it has been since the beginning of medicine. Adding confusion now in order to satisfy a few peoples ego's seems silly.



I agree with Mike and Mick here. While I can see athomas's view, if someone comes into a hospital for surgery and the first time you (as a doctoral prepared nurse anesthetist) meet him or her then I would hope people would realize that patient's priorities come first. The only thing on their mind is having a good perioperative experience and hopefully having that immediate 'bonding' with people literally responsible for his or her life during the surgery. Just IMHO, it seems rather conceited and pompus to take this time to grandstand and call attention to yourself by running around calling yoursefl 'doctor' and then the ensuing conversation that would take place about how you are a NURSE anesthetist but calling yourself DOCTOR as the same time. It takes enough just to straighten out patients as to who we are and what our role is without further muddying the waters about title. If PhD is on a badge and someone has the education to notice and put 2+2 together, then this is an excellent side conversation...like Mick said...of how you are a doctorally prepared nurse anesthetist. This would further solidify the patient and provider relationship. In fact, this might be something to bring up during most routine patient encounters..how you are a doctorally prepared NURSE anesthetist. Ego comes into play here and I think that is a big part of this discussion. But to run around a hosital proclaiming or to first introduce yourself as a 'dr' only makes you look conceited and powerhungry, not to mention look like an idiot, and you aren't considering the patient's needs over your own ego-driven goals. That's sad IMHO. It isn't about you as a provider, its about the patient.

People have and always will assume a person stating himself or herself as a 'DR", within a clinical setting, equates to a physician. People do indeed in generalized society know the difference between physicians and other "drs"..such as pastors, psychologists, and education doctorates, this is negated when a general member of the population walks into a hospital. While education of the public is indeed a priority...I still think that in a hospital and esp in the preoperative interview is the wrong avenue to persue this. If the AANA wants to launch a PR initiative concerning this, then fine but I think in the end we will look like idiots, but then again I don't run the AANA.

Don't get me started climbing my white-coat soapbox.

betterlatethanever
12-30-2006, 11:30 AM
CALL ME A NURSE!

BEING A MALE NURSE WHEN A PATIENT MISTAKENLY CALL ME DOCTOR I CORRECT THEM BY SAYING, " DON;T INSULT ME LIKE THAT! I AM YOUR NURSE." IT IS NOT STATED IN A CONFRONTATIONAL WAY BUT I THINK IT DOES BRING HOME A VALID POINT ABOUT PROMOTING NURSING AS A PROFESSION. ONCE AGAIN IT IS SAID IN JEST AND IT NOT MEANT TO OFFEND MD'S OR DO'S.
CHRIS

LouCRNA
12-30-2006, 12:56 PM
I had this instructor once, forget his last name, for Anthropology. He came to teach at our school after being a professor at Princeton, and people were kind of awed by this ivy league professor coming to teach at a lowly state university in the midwest. One day in class, out of nowhere, he said to us "You know, if you see me out in public, I really do want you to come and say hello. But don't call me 'Mr.' (whatever his last name was) and don't call me by my first name. I have earned the title of doctor, and that or professor is how you should refer to me." I remember thinking, "what a pompous ass." I mean, if I saw him out socially, he should just be flattered that I would be bothered enough to say hello to him at all. In the academic setting, I would certainly always refer to a doctorally prepared instructor as professor or doctor, but in a social situation.....

I have mixed feelings about calling people doctor in the clinical setting. On the one hand I feel like people who have worked hard enough to earn their doctorate deserve the title. I mean it's a great achievement, and I'm all for recognizing their dedication. However, the connotation and the denotation of calling someone doctor in a hospital or other patient care setting are quite different. We all realize that I believe -that to a patient a "doctor" is a physician, maybe not in everyday life, but as RN29306 said, it all changes the minute they come through the hospital doors. And what we do is all about the patient; it is their experience that we are blessed to be a part of, and I think we shouldn't muddy the waters for the sake of self-exhaltation.

I will be proud to call myself a nurse anesthetist, but I was always proud to call myself a nurse - period. It is not for recognition's sake or as a status symbol that I will be proud of earning the title of CRNA, but rather because I am proud of what I do, of the service I provide, because to someone it is the most important thing I could be doing for them at the time, whether they realize it or not. Because of the clinical connotation of "doctor", when I do earn my doctorate (and I will), I would never want to be referred to as "Dr. Lou" (though that's pretty catchy, isn't it?). I will then, as now, proudly be a member of the nursing profession, and that is what I would want my patients to know. I don't think that trying to educate someone on the vast array of education levels of nurses is appropriate in the periop period. I mean we're talking about some of the most stressful and frightening moments of people's lives. Pick a different time, place, and situation to provide this type of education.

JMHO,
Lou

cathys01
12-30-2006, 08:18 PM
I think the use of the title "Doctor" in the clinical setting should be reserved to only MD/DOs. I had a professor in nursing school that was a PhD in nursing. We called her Dr. (name), but did not call here that in a patient's room (she would not have allowed it).

[thread hijack] Along the lines of using titles (and the initials that follow names), if I take the Neonatal CCRN exam and become a CCRN, I'm assuming it would be inappropriate to use the CCRN initials when I move to the CVICU...is that correct? I will be taking the CCRN exam next month, but am changing specialties to CVICU and just wondered about this. I think it would be misleading to use the initials in a different clinical setting. [/thread hijack]

FutrCRNA
12-30-2006, 09:30 PM
Drew, you know I love ya more than my luggage but I completely disagree with you on this one. You do have a point about ego - and I think MD/DO egos are part of this controversy. They want to "own" the title of doctor and they seem to be insecure and power hungry about it. Heaven forbid anyone else who has earned the right to be addressed as "Dr." should do so if they're not a physician. It belittles the hard work of anyone who has put in the time and effort to earn a doctorate degree. Sure, medical school is tougher than most other degrees, but they don't have the corner on the "Dr." market. If they want to avoid confusion, let them call themselves physicians. I don't think there's anything wrong with someone with a clinical-based (not research-based) doctorate using the title in a clinical setting.

Or, here's an idea, how about we all stop fussing about what we're called and just focus on patient care...

athomas91
12-31-2006, 05:42 AM
i will be clearer about my earlier post - personally even with a Phd i wouldn't call myself doctor OR ask others to refer to me in that way..

BUT if someone who has earned that right is refused based on the way the "community perceives it..." or the fact that only physicians should have the title is BS. Again i feel if they want to use a title they earned it is completely acceptable BUT they bear the responsibility to state and explain Doctorate of nursing in anesthesia..etc...

and i don't feel it is grandstanding at all to educate your patient on who is taking care of them - i cannot tell you how many times i have explained what a nurse anesthetist is, how they are trained, what is required... AND most importantly the REAL history of anesthesia AND who really started it.

assilem
12-31-2006, 09:24 AM
So I've read somewhere about how the MD Doctor title differs in other countries, U.K.? Is it the same in canada Mike?

funny side note - we had a good friend and both of his parents had PhDs one in nursing and education and the other in theology? i think. anyways when anyone called and asked for Dr Taylor, they'd have to ask Which one? But they were the most down to earth couple that I've ever met, and never wanted to be called Dr.

MmacFN
12-31-2006, 10:22 AM
Hey mel

Yah in the UK once you finish medical school you cannot be called "Doctor" you can only be called a physician. The Doctor title is reserved for MBBS PhD's (MBBS is the med degree in the UK). As i understand it, this is more of a general thing than a strick rule.

In Canada only physicans are called 'Doctor' in the clincal setting.


So I've read somewhere about how the MD Doctor title differs in other countries, U.K.? Is it the same in canada Mike?

funny side note - we had a good friend and both of his parents had PhDs one in nursing and education and the other in theology? i think. anyways when anyone called and asked for Dr Taylor, they'd have to ask Which one? But they were the most down to earth couple that I've ever met, and never wanted to be called Dr.

MmacFN
12-31-2006, 10:24 AM
Hey thread hijacker :P

:hijacked:

Yes, the CCRN would not be the same as the one for adults. It would not really be appropriate to use in the CVICU as people would assume something which wasent true and this coulkd cause friction for you. Since your switching to CVICU why not defer the exam until you get in the CVICU for a few months. Then just take the ICU one?

:focus:




[thread hijack] Along the lines of using titles (and the initials that follow names), if I take the Neonatal CCRN exam and become a CCRN, I'm assuming it would be inappropriate to use the CCRN initials when I move to the CVICU...is that correct? I will be taking the CCRN exam next month, but am changing specialties to CVICU and just wondered about this. I think it would be misleading to use the initials in a different clinical setting. [/thread hijack]

FutrCRNA
12-31-2006, 12:01 PM
I guess I'm just feeling feisty today b/c I'm gonna disagree with you, too, Mikey. (And if you want to spank me just get in line 'cuz Drew already threatened to do so after I objected to his post... :spankme: )

I don't think it would be inappropriate to have CCRN on your badge (I'm assuming that's what you meant when you asked about using it) b/c you did earn it, regardless of whether it was the pediatric or adult certification. I have my CCRN but zero CV experience and if I were to move to a CVICU, I'd still acknowledge that I have it b/c it doesn't just encompass CV. And, yes, I know adults and the little critters are very different but there is still some basic critical care experience covered in both exams.

I'm also basing my opinion on how things are in my unit - many of us didn't even bother to put it on our badges b/c it doesn't make a difference. (We don't get paid any more for having it and we're not singled out as clinical resources b/c of it.) So no one would care if your CCRN was the adult or pediatric version.

JMHO...and since I vowed to be "nicer" next year, I'm trying to get all my feistiness out now before the stroke of midnight. So, who wants to spar next? :box2:

RAYMAN
12-31-2006, 12:07 PM
I gotta agree with the feisty one. You earned the CCRN by working hard and it is your right to wear it. It shows that you are supposed to be adept at critical thinking and if some nurse can't think enough to ask "you've only been here a week, how did you get your CCRN" and give you the opportunity to explain then don't worry bout it.

FutrCRNA
12-31-2006, 01:02 PM
Since your switching to CVICU why not defer the exam until you get in the CVICU for a few months. Then just take the ICU one?



I'm not sure you can do this since (last time I checked) you have to have 1750 clinical hours at the ICU bedside to sit for the adult CCRN exam (but I'm not sure if you'd get credit for the time spent in the NICU.) So you'd have to defer the exam for almost a year. I say if you already qualify to take the rugrat version, do it!

Sidebar: my school requires the CCRN, but they didn't differentiate whether it was the adult or pediatric - they just wanted CCRN. And we did have a few NICU CCRNs in our class. Which I guess means that CCRN = CCRN no matter which version.

944S
12-31-2006, 03:37 PM
A very similar discussion (http://gasforums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=352996) is taking place over on the SDN.

yoga
12-31-2006, 06:13 PM
There was an appeals court ruling on this issue from the State of Texas.

The facts are somewhat different than what we have been discussing here, but they do involve a nurse anesthetist, (whose name I will not mention)

This nurse anesthetist graduated from an off-shore medical school and had not obtained her Texas medical license. Since she received her MD, she called herself "doctor". She opened an accupuncture and pain clinc and had her medical school diploma on the wall. A physician in the area was upset and reported her to the board of medicine. An investigator who posed as a patient went to the clinic. The nurse anesthetist called herself "doctor" and said she had been doing anesthesia for many years.

How would you rule on this case? Why?
Jan

MmacFN
12-31-2006, 07:21 PM
whoa

now thats complicated.

In the hospital, Interns are not called "Doctors". Until this person was "accredited" in the USA i think it would not be acceptable for her to be called Doctor in the clinical setting. Hanging the diploma, sure, using the MD after her name? No. Im relatively sure that unless you have been accredited here in the US you cannot use MD after your name just as a foreign RN cannot.

MmacFN
12-31-2006, 07:28 PM
Hey T

I understand what your saying and I dont think its "wrong" however, i DO think it will cause friction in your new work setting as the "FNG".

Don't you remember how many ICU RNs are? I can hear it now "Well, thats NOT the CCRN exam that matters here!". Many of these CCRNs in the ICU feel this is the 'crowning accomplishment' of their careers, all the sudden someone comes in they are mentoring and has the same letters on their badge.

Again, i dont think its wrong and it wouldnt bother me, however, there is a very elitist attitude prevalent in the ICU environment. Often called "PrimaDonnas" i think it wouldnt engender positive

cathys01
12-31-2006, 08:58 PM
I wasn't planning on having it put on my badge, in any case. Actually, my plan is to obtain the CCRN in both neonatal (now, since it's what I am ready for) and later in adult ICU - after about a year. I figure it certainly can't hurt me to have both when it comes time for my CRNA applications.

On my unit, most of the nurses that have certification have the RNC, and when they sign their names on charts, they use RNC instead of RN. I wasn't planning to do this either, and of course, I don't know if that's something that's done in the adult world anyway.

kmchugh
01-01-2007, 04:15 AM
Jan

If you will recall, this is an issue that I raised on that “other” bulletin board with a student who called himself “TraumaCRNA.” (That thread can be found here. (http://allnurses.com/forums/f16/non-anesthetists-using-title-crna-105485.html) So, as you might guess, I have pretty strong feelings about the improper use of titles. Titles that are granted as a result of academic or professional endeavors should be reserved strictly to those who have earned them. Period.

I think this is particularly important in our profession, in that we are currently (always?) embroiled in a political battle for our professional lives. It is simply too easy for me to imagine a scenario whereby a “wannabe” could do irreparable damage to our profession by claiming the title CRNA without having earned it, even in online forums such as this. Beyond that, claiming the title is simply disrespectful of those who have earned it. I worked hard to get where I am, and I resent unqualified people who would dismiss my hard work by claiming the title for which I worked so hard.

As to the issue of using the honorific “doctor,” I believe we have to recognize the realities of our society. In a hospital setting, the patient equates “doctor” with “MD.” Therefore, even if I have my PhD, I believe that I would be misleading patients by introducing myself as “Doctor McHugh.” On top of that, I think that our profession is little enough known. I want my patients to know that I am a nurse, not a physician, and take great care to make sure they know who is giving them their anesthetic, who will be in the room from start to finish of their surgery.

As to the CRNA who earned her MD offshore, it’s a complicated issue. In the end, I think she too is misleading her patients with her statements. By hanging her medical degree, and claiming to have done anesthesia for many years, I believe she is leading her patients to believe that she is a physician of long standing, which simply is not true.

Kevin McHugh

jwk
01-01-2007, 03:57 PM
whoa

now thats complicated.

In the hospital, Interns are not called "Doctors". Until this person was "accredited" in the USA i think it would not be acceptable for her to be called Doctor in the clinical setting. Hanging the diploma, sure, using the MD after her name? No. Im relatively sure that unless you have been accredited here in the US you cannot use MD after your name just as a foreign RN cannot.
If she was practicing as a physician, the MD is appropriate. If she's practicing under a nursing license, it's not.

Isn't RN actually a legal title? The degrees themselves indicate training in a nursing field of some sort, but the license actually confers the "RN". In the case of an MD, that's their degree, and in some states, may be their licensed title as well, but in other's they're actually licensed as a "physician". Some states might also differentiate in some way or form between allopathic and osteopathic as well - they even have two "medical boards".

goodytwoshoes
01-03-2007, 07:34 AM
Thank you for starting this forum! I am in my first year of CRNA school, but I (like a lot of us, I think,) had to take a bunch of generic MSN classes. One of the professors was a real WITCH, and could barely contain her disgust for we the anesthesia students. Anyway, she was very "I am nurse, hear me roar," type, ya know? But then, in the clinical setting, she would be all over her doctorate, and introducing herself as Dr. F-. Patients would speak to her like, "Hey Doc, thanks a lot," etc. I thought this was so very innappropriate, especially considering the fact that she alleges that she wants to advance the nursing profession, have nurses (she is an NP,) have a bigger voice, etc. Then how:pound: pray tell, are you going to do that if you are literally tricking patients into thinking that if you are providing primary health care, then you are a "doctor?" In the classroom, Dr is fine, but I think it is misleading to patients, and I personally will be proud to say that I am a nurse anesthetist, just as I would to be a NURSE practitioner. Even now as a student, I think patients are reassured when, even though my badge says in huge letters, STUDENT, I can say, "My name is....I am a registered nurse, and a graduate student in nurse anesthesia."

wallacesk2
01-05-2007, 11:40 PM
Honestly, I have to say I read everyone's input on this one and each entry has valid points. I really like the way that Dr. Fallacaro at VCU explained it to our class at orientation. Is Anesthesia the practice of nursing or the practice of medicine? Well, if you practice along side a Anesthesiologist then it is the practice of nursing in the eyes of the MD's, but yet so many CRNA's practice without supervision under a Doctor or Physician in rural areas. So thats the practice of medicine. I like to think that it is a mixture of the 2 areas and I will probably say that I am the Anesthetist. I wonder why everything has to be so black and white with no shades of gray in between. Why is it that if a CRNA happens to be doctorally prepared that they should not also be called "Doctor". If someone puts in the time and hard work to earn a doctor degree, why should they not get the recognition that they have earned. Honestly to me it really doesn't matter (even though it is in the workings at VCU to offer a DNAP for our class of 2008) as long as my patients are cared for. At the end of the day all that matters is our patients and making sure that they were well cared for and that you did your best.

UofACRNA09
01-07-2007, 02:14 PM
I have also found some professors in my MSN program to be harder on or argumentative with the anesthesia students. Our program has asked us NOT to stand out in the core classes because SRNA's are viewed by some prof's as "trouble makers", "argumentative" and that we think we are "superior" to other APNs. Has anyone else found this in their experiences? I personally think one of my grades suffered because in a Policy class I spoke up & refused to state who I was voting for this election and why I was voting a particular way. I respectfully asked for an "alternative" assignment. I will keep my mouth shut more this semester.

Back to the original thought about titles. I think CRNAs with a doctorate calling themselves doctor would confuse the public. However, I think it is unfair that others with a pHD can call themselves doctor. It's a catch 22.

When I was shadowing a CRNA & we went up to OB for an epidural, he gave his name & said "I'll be putting in your epidural". After the procedure was finished the woman said "Thank you, doctor". He did not correct the pt. It was my first day & I was excited, so I didn't ask him outside of the room why he did not correct the pt. How would some other CRNA's handle this situation?

RN29306
01-07-2007, 03:51 PM
I have also found some professors in my MSN program to be harder on or argumentative with the anesthesia students. Our program has asked us NOT to stand out in the core classes because SRNA's are viewed by some prof's as "trouble makers", "argumentative" and that we think we are "superior" to other APNs. Has anyone else found this in their experiences?

Pretty much the same thing here...in fact, almost identical.

emme
01-07-2007, 05:42 PM
Sometimes nurse anesthesia students do have an attitude. In my experience, the attitude is related to lack of patience for stupidity and for things that waste time for no good reasons.

I would have to be sedated to sit in a nursing theory/policy class. One of the big differences I see in nursing and nurse anesthesiology is that most of the nursing instructors have no idea what it is like to give patient care, whereas, in anesthesia, those teaching the clinical classes are usually good hands-on clinicians.

What a waste of time.

MmacFN
01-07-2007, 05:43 PM
Hey UofASRN

As to the CRNA being referred to as "doctor", well, this has been happening my whole career by virtue of the fact that I have a penis. Clearly, i MUST be a physician. Every single time I correct them. However, i too have seen others let it slide afterwhich i question them about it or correct them myself.

Not only is that behavior a lie, but it may also be grounds to be fired via misrepresentation.

Who knows, maybe your CRNA preceptor didnt even hear it. But in general, I would always question it.



I have also found some professors in my MSN program to be harder on or argumentative with the anesthesia students. Our program has asked us NOT to stand out in the core classes because SRNA's are viewed by some prof's as "trouble makers", "argumentative" and that we think we are "superior" to other APNs. Has anyone else found this in their experiences? I personally think one of my grades suffered because in a Policy class I spoke up & refused to state who I was voting for this election and why I was voting a particular way. I respectfully asked for an "alternative" assignment. I will keep my mouth shut more this semester.

Back to the original thought about titles. I think CRNAs with a doctorate calling themselves doctor would confuse the public. However, I think it is unfair that others with a pHD can call themselves doctor. It's a catch 22.

When I was shadowing a CRNA & we went up to OB for an epidural, he gave his name & said "I'll be putting in your epidural". After the procedure was finished the woman said "Thank you, doctor". He did not correct the pt. It was my first day & I was excited, so I didn't ask him outside of the room why he did not correct the pt. How would some other CRNA's handle this situation?

emme
01-07-2007, 05:47 PM
I agree with the last post. When a patient calls me Doctor, I correct them and tell them I am a nurse anesthetist and explain how the anesthesia part of our education is the same and that nurses are known for watching the patient closely and preventing problems.

That gives me a chance to be honest and to educate the patients. I once saw a business card of a CRNA, with the back of it explaining what a CRNA is.

DebbieC
01-07-2007, 05:55 PM
:dito:

FutrCRNA
01-07-2007, 07:57 PM
That gives me a chance to be honest and to educate the patients. I once saw a business card of a CRNA, with the back of it explaining what a CRNA is.

That's awesome!

assilem
01-08-2007, 09:16 AM
There was an appeals court ruling on this issue from the State of Texas.

The facts are somewhat different than what we have been discussing here, but they do involve a nurse anesthetist, (whose name I will not mention)

This nurse anesthetist graduated from an off-shore medical school and had not obtained her Texas medical license. Since she received her MD, she called herself "doctor". She opened an accupuncture and pain clinc and had her medical school diploma on the wall. A physician in the area was upset and reported her to the board of medicine. An investigator who posed as a patient went to the clinic. The nurse anesthetist called herself "doctor" and said she had been doing anesthesia for many years.

How would you rule on this case? Why?
Jan


idk yoga, was she ever planning to get her texas medical license? i don't know too much about the requirements on transferring the credit from off shore school to obtain a US MD license. taking away the crna aspect of it - wouldn't it be the same as any foreign doctor practicing in the US w/o credentials being checked?

do you know how the case turned out and what the nurse is doing/did?

tlberryrn
01-08-2007, 10:52 AM
As far as the use of doctor...
what about a consulting podiatrist (DPM) or optometrist (OD) in a hospital setting? Are they not worthy of being called a doctor simply because of the public's ignorance? I personally take the stand that a practitioner's name and credentials should be displayed on a name badge or lab coat in a hospital setting, whether it is MD, PhD, DNP or whatever. If a practitioner holds a doctorate, let them be called doctor. I believe the practitioner should identify themselves, "My name is...and I will be your Nurse Anesthetist today..." Those patients who are astute enough to read the name badge or ask a question should be given a detailed explanation...I am a Nurse Anesthetist with a PhD or DNP in Nursing, etc. Most of those who simply assume that any person who is called "doctor" is a physician despite introducing themselves as a Nurse Anesthetist are in my opinion unlikely to comprehend the finer points of the foundation for CRNA practice.
I also think that the line of thinking whereby only MDs or DOs are worthy to be called doctor goes back to the paternalistic earlier days of healthcare when Physicians wielded superiority over all other health care practitioners. Now the healthcare model has changed to one where there are multiple respected members of the healthcare team who all have their roles to fill and their areas of expertise. Educational requirements for Nursing, Pharmacy, Psychology, Physical Therapy, and many other fields have changed and these fields have begun producing practitioners with the highest level of specialty training within their fields who are wholly qualified as "doctors" within their specialties.
I would agree with a previous post that purposefully "posing" as an MD by being called "doctor" would cheapen the Nurse Anesthesia profession and that is not what I am advocating. What I am saying is that we can strengthen Nurse Anesthesia by showing the public that we, too are highly trained doctorally prepared professionals in our field showing that we have mastered (academically speaking) the knowledge base required to function at a high level in providing safe anesthesia care.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Travis Berry, SRNA

FutrCRNA
01-08-2007, 04:11 PM
:werd: