Am I looking to far ahead?

[NathanDH]

Hello, I am a BSN student. I am a senior with about 7 months till graduation. My first two year GPA is 4.0 including my maths and sciences, my nursing GPA is around 3.4, however I expect to graduate with a nursing GPA of around 3.6. My question is whether or not I should spend my time in ICU, or do I not have a chance?
I am always very nervous about getting into schools, and I do not want to spend a year in ICU if I don't even have a chance of getting in.

I am interested specifically in MUSC and University of South Carolina's programs if anyone knows anything about their average GPAs and such.

Thanks,
Nathan

[RN29306]

3.6 is solid, but is only one aspect of your application.

grade-wise, your good to go. its all the rest that can make-or-break-you.

[NathanDH]

3.6 is solid, but is only one aspect of your application.

grade-wise, your good to go. its all the rest that can make-or-break-you.

What other aspects should I pay close attention to over the next 2 years?

Thanks,
Nathan

[MethaneMan]

The aspects you should pay attention to are the requirements from the schools you are interested in. Everybody requires a BSN (or ADN with non-nursing Baccalaureate degree), a GRE (some the MAT), references, and a minimum of 1 year ICU. Some require additional coursework outside of just your BSN requirements. Some require CCRN cert. Some require more than 1 year ICU time.

Bottom line is to meet or exceed all of the requirements. In addition, shadowing a CRNA is highly valued by admission committees and required by some.

Also, get a little bit more excited about ICU work. You'll need to be to soak in all the information you can so 1. you will not kill anyone and 2. you won't look stupid come interview time for school.

[NathanDH]

The aspects you should pay attention to are the requirements from the schools you are interested in. Everybody requires a BSN (or ADN with non-nursing Baccalaureate degree), a GRE (some the MAT), references, and a minimum of 1 year ICU. Some require additional coursework outside of just your BSN requirements. Some require CCRN cert. Some require more than 1 year ICU time.

Bottom line is to meet or exceed all of the requirements. In addition, shadowing a CRNA is highly valued by admission committees and required by some.

Also, get a little bit more excited about ICU work. You'll need to be to soak in all the information you can so 1. you will not kill anyone and 2. you won't look stupid come interview time for school.

Thank you RN29306 and MethaneMan.

I am not disinterested in ICU work, but my other choice rather than CRNA School, would be Medical School. As you know it can often times be more difficult to get into CRNA School than Medical School.

The programs that I have looked at, and been interested in, are MUSC and USC, neither of which require any Organic Chem/Biochem, etc... My question is should I take those classes?

[MmacFN]

Hey

Well here is the thing. You need to decide what it is you want to do, Anesthesia or Medicine then make a plan for classes. If you want to goto medical school you will have to take the premed classes none of which you will have from a BSN.

Ochem is one of the most difficult classes in the university setting with one of the highest fail rates of any class. It is considered a "weeder" class for med school. If you decide to take this class and do badly it will harm your chances for both anesthesia and medical school.

I would stress that you should consider it very unlikely that you will get into anesthesia school with only one year experience. A 2007 survey showed that out of a 508 SRNA sample only 2.8% had one year while 87% had > 3 years and 27.6% of those had greater than 10 years experience.

So you really should make the decision what you want to do by graduation from your BSN. The med pre reqs will take you about 3 years doing part time which is, coincidentally, when admission success rates are higher in anesthesia school.

[NathanDH]

Hey

Well here is the thing. You need to decide what it is you want to do, Anesthesia or Medicine then make a plan for classes. If you want to goto medical school you will have to take the premed classes none of which you will have from a BSN.

Ochem is one of the most difficult classes in the university setting with one of the highest fail rates of any class. It is considered a "weeder" class for med school. If you decide to take this class and do badly it will harm your chances for both anesthesia and medical school.

I would stress that you should consider it very unlikely that you will get into anesthesia school with only one year experience. A 2007 survey showed that out of a 508 SRNA sample only 2.8% had one year while 87% had > 3 years and 27.6% of those had greater than 10 years experience.

So you really should make the decision what you want to do by graduation from your BSN. The med pre reqs will take you about 3 years doing part time which is, coincidentally, when admission success rates are higher in anesthesia school.

The prerequisites that I need for pre-med would only take me 2 semesters.
I am very confused about how much experience I need, I shadowed a CRNA yesterday who had only one year of ICU experience before school, he has only been working for 1 year.
I was offered a flight nursing position by a friend of mine after I graduate, would this be advisable?

[MmacFN]

Nathan

I have been a flight RN for quite awhile and I dont believe for a second that you were offered a position upon graduation since I have been involved in the national standards for certification/accred. of air medical programs I know the rules well. The CAMTS accreditation for Air Medical programs requires that RNs have a minimum of 3 years (5 pref.) experience in either ER or ICU (mix is pref) before even being considered for a flight RN job. If someone is offering you a job as a flight RN upon graduation this is NOT a reputable or nationally accredited program. So forgive me if I don't believe it.

I am confused as to how you figure med school pre reqs would take 2 semesters. Do you know what they are? All medical schools require (at a min) one year each of biology, chemistry, organic chemistry, english and physics WITH labs for each. None of the BSN classes you have taken (including the chem) will count toward any of these requirements. At a part time schedule (which it would be since you would supposedly be an RN working) the fastest you could manage these classes would be 2 a year (2 classes @ 2 days a week + 2 lab days a week). That is (at the fastest) 2.5 years and likely 3. It is impossible to do it any faster (ive taken them).

While you may well have shadowed a CRNA who had one year experience that does not mean everyone gets in at one year, read what i wrote in the previous post again. Under 3% of SRNAs currently in anesthesia school (from a sample of 508) have one year experience. It is rare, while the "minimum requirement" is one year why would an anesthesia program take a novice when they have more qualified applicants?

[6hipguns]

Harder to get in than med school, I don't know.... When I told people I was applying to a CRNA program I heard all kinds of stories about how hard it is to get in, like only 1 in 200 make it. That's not true, especially now that the number of CRNA spots has doubled to almost 2000 each year. More and more people are getting in with 1 or 2 years. For awhile in the 90's the number of CRNA spots had dropped, and there was a back log of people trying to get in. Your grades are fine, and you really benefit from 2 years of ICU experience. Go into it with enthusiasm, that's what interview committees are looking for. Someone who is excited about what they are doing, willing to put in the effort to go the extra mile.

[NathanDH]

Nathan

I have been a flight RN for quite awhile and I dont believe for a second that you were offered a position upon graduation since I have been involved in the national standards for certification/accred. of air medical programs I know the rules well. The CAMTS accreditation for Air Medical programs requires that RNs have a minimum of 3 years (5 pref.) experience in either ER or ICU (mix is pref) before even being considered for a flight RN job. If someone is offering you a job as a flight RN upon graduation this is NOT a reputable or nationally accredited program. So forgive me if I don't believe it.

I am confused as to how you figure med school pre reqs would take 2 semesters. Do you know what they are? All medical schools require (at a min) one year each of biology, chemistry, organic chemistry, english and physics WITH labs for each. None of the BSN classes you have taken (including the chem) will count toward any of these requirements. At a part time schedule (which it would be since you would supposedly be an RN working) the fastest you could manage these classes would be 2 a year (2 classes @ 2 days a week + 2 lab days a week). That is (at the fastest) 2.5 years and likely 3. It is impossible to do it any faster (ive taken them).

While you may well have shadowed a CRNA who had one year experience that does not mean everyone gets in at one year, read what i wrote in the previous post again. Under 3% of SRNAs currently in anesthesia school (from a sample of 508) have one year experience. It is rare, while the "minimum requirement" is one year why would an anesthesia program take a novice when they have more qualified applicants?


The flight nursing position was offered through the Air Force Reserve, which would include training.

One year of biology, I already have this
One year of introductory inorganic chemistry, I already have this
One year of organic chemistry, I need this
One year of physics, I need this
I already have the maths that I need.
This would only leave me to take Organic Chem and Physics together, 2 semesters.
Why would you say that the chemistry that I took would not count? I took my chemistry with pre-med students as well.

As for the flight nursing, I was just wondering if it would be good experience, and help with my admissions.

Sorry for all the misunderstanding.

[gthcrna]

Nathan,

Lots of good information for you to digest. I am a CRNA Program Director and can give you my 2 cents worth. Doing well in sciences is important. That means a lot. Getting 1000 on your GRE and a 3.6 average with 1 year of ICU will get you an interview in about 80% of the programs in the country. Don't let people scare you off. In Florida there are 8 CRNA programs. We share a common applicant pool. It is not advisable to put all of your eggs in one basket. You never know how an interview will go, and if you don't have some viable alternates and a safety school, you may not make it in.

To me when I look at applicants on paper, I see many similarities. The personal interview is the litmus test for me. I want to see where you head is at. Probably the worst thing you can say is that you aren't sure if this is for you or you didn't like ICU. I have to tell you, being a CRNA is not terribly far from ICU nursing. If you don't like critical care, you won't like anesthesia. Remember it has to be a job that fascinates you, not the one where you can double your earnings in as little as 24 months. I have seen those first hand and they have a miserable existence. In the interview I am looking for the "fire in the belly". Those that want it and will do anything to achieve the goal are the ones I am interested in. If you are not diving into this feet first with all of your heart and soul they will figure that out. They fear that if a new SRNA isn't totally committed that they will quit after a short time and that spot will be lost for the remainder of the program. You really have to want it and convey that in your interview. This is time to do an examination of your own goals and aspirations. Figure it out while you are young. I came across anesthesia working in a PACU. I was absolutely fascinated with the CRNAs and their job. They reeled me in and the rest is history, so to speak.

Surprisingly enough, I am also a Lt. Col. Flight Nurse in the USAF Reserves (also surprisingly enough in South Carolina). Being a reservist now is not as easy as you think. By the time you do Commissioned Officer's Training, Survival School, Flight School, and get qualified, you are looking at about 6 months of your time. Then once you are qualified, you could be deployed. That would be disasterous as an SRNA. You would most likely have to start over again once your deployment is up. You will not have much time as an SRNA to accomplish your military requirements and will likely have to go inactive for school. Be wary that there are no school waivers or exceptions. I have seen them take people out of school in the past. (not necessarily from Charleston AFB, but other places) You will hear that "the needs of the Air Force come before the needs of the individual". Take that one seriously.

Lots of luck with your plans. Both schools in SC are pretty good. I know Dr. Chipas at MUSC and he runs a quality program.

gthcrna :usa:

[turbo29]

Excellent comment gthcrna. It is great to see the application process from the other vantage point. I think this post will be beneficial to many. Thanks again.

[MmacFN]

Ahhhh

Military is a whole different story.

The standard experience is ICU. I would suggest that route simply because many programs are absolutely clueless as to what flight nursing is and do not include it under critical care even tho it is far more critical and autonomous than any role in the hospital.

As for the pre med classes, looks like your on your way. The chem should be accepted since it appears its a regular intro chem as opposed to the "short or mixed" chem that many BSN programs do.

In that case you dont have alot of time to decide what it is you want. My advice is if you want to be a physician do not choose a path which you would personally consider "second choice". These are the types of decisions that will haunt you forever. Being a CRNA is not being a physician, its an entirely different animal. Before you make the decision make sure whatever you choose is what you really want.

[NathanDH]

Thank you gthcrna and MmacFN. I suppose I should be wary knowing quite a few people in the military, the military's needs always come first.
I am very excited about ICU, and becoming a CRNA, it was my first choice after discovering them in second year of college. To be honest Medical School has always been a fallback for me, I am afraid that nursing on a level any lower than CRNA is not a great interest for me. I must say that from what I have gathered ICU nurses have much more autonomy than staff nurses, however we have not done our rotation through ICU yet, so I will have to get back to everyone on whether or not I enjoy it.

Thanks,
Nathan

[johnny500]

Going to either CRNA school or medical school certainly bears serious examination. I had the same question myself before I became a nurse. After I really thought about it, I figured out that one of the main reasons I wanted to go to med school would be to have "Dr." in front of my last name. I rightly decided that this was a pretty flimsy reason to sacrifice 8-12 years of my life (pre-med, med school, residency). Alternatetively, I found out that what I really liked about healthcare was nursing, and most specifically critical-care nursing (one-on-one direct care, manipulation of physiology, the challenge of a high-stress environment, etc). I eventually have become really passionate about ICU nursing, and have determined that the way to take it to the next level would be CRNA school. My two cents are to get done with your BSN and try to go straight into the ICU. The opportunity is there nowadays, you just have to be ready to do the extra work (which there is a lot of) as a new grad going straight into the unit. Spend some time figuring out what it is that you really love about the job, and continue your education accordingly. And if you really want to be an MD, I don't think that anything other than med school is really going to satisfy you.

[MmacFN]

Sounds like you answered the question!

Keep us updated! Your story will help countless others!

[ORNurse]

do years of experience in this sample include all years or ICU only?

[jcaSRNA]

Nathan,

I don't know you're background or who's whispering in your ear, but dude, you need a dose of humble pie bro'. "I am afraid that nursing on a level any lower than CRNA is not a great interest for me." I read this, and I laughed my friggin' A** OFF! It's just funny, you don't even know what you don't know! Someone like you needs a few years in the ICU at least. I'm not going to sit here and pretend you don't sound ridiculous, because you do. Why don't you just graduate nursing school first and come back when you're relevent - you just smell fishy man.

[DIGNOUT]

VCU stats: ~1000 applicants, ~120 interviews, ~30 admissions offers... competition is still high these days.

And Nathan- keep in mind nurse anesthesia is still nursing. If you're not into nursing at the "lower levels," you might wanna' reconsider things. Afterall, that's where it all begins. Lack of interest in the foundational years = bad nursing = bad news. If medicine is your cup of tea (cure vs. care), go to med school. Good luck to you.

[MmacFN]

Hey

The study takes into account all years of experience as an RN. Every RN position will be beneficial to anesthesia practice even if its a med surg floor. What prepares people for some of the specifics is the acute care experience.


do years of experience in this sample include all years or ICU only?

[NathanDH]

Nathan,

I don't know you're background or who's whispering in your ear, but dude, you need a dose of humble pie bro'. "I am afraid that nursing on a level any lower than CRNA is not a great interest for me." I read this, and I laughed my friggin' A** OFF! It's just funny, you don't even know what you don't know! Someone like you needs a few years in the ICU at least. I'm not going to sit here and pretend you don't sound ridiculous, because you do. Why don't you just graduate nursing school first and come back when you're relevent - you just smell fishy man.

Not saying that I don't care about it, or that it doesn't matter to me, but that I won't be happy unless I go past that, I am not someone who just becomes content or complacent.
I am not sure how being humble has anything to do with my situation.
I know the importance of setting goals in life. I have seen what has happened to others in my family who just become dormant in a sense.
I graduated from highschool early because I set that goal for myself, I could have very well said that, "I probably shouldn't say that I will be happier with college since I have never experienced it, I better not even bother trying to get there." I have always been one to plan ahead, and set goals, I don't see how trying to set those goals into action early makes me prideful or even haughty.
For me it is very important to have my life lined up. Even if I were to spend 2-3 years in ICU that would mean that CRNA school was only 3-4 years away. I have always had a 5 year plan, that is what makes me tick, and gives me motivation, I am sorry if you have not felt the same works for, but that is where I derive my motivation.

Thanks,
Nathan

[ethernaut]

Nathan,

I don't know you're background or who's whispering in your ear, but dude, you need a dose of humble pie bro'. "I am afraid that nursing on a level any lower than CRNA is not a great interest for me." I read this, and I laughed my friggin' A** OFF! It's just funny, you don't even know what you don't know! Someone like you needs a few years in the ICU at least. I'm not going to sit here and pretend you don't sound ridiculous, because you do. Why don't you just graduate nursing school first and come back when you're relevent - you just smell fishy man.

peeyoo...

now THAT was funny

[6hipguns]

I don't think jcaSRNA took issue with your goals, but it sounds like you think all the other nurses who are not going for a CRNA are 'a lower level'. Anesthesia isn't for everyone, and there are tons of very smart, independent nurses who are not CRNAs. In a busy ICU you will find that out. I worked for a year and a half with a nurse who had been an ICU RN for something like 20 years. I admired her so much for the years and years of great bedside care. Just a year ago my brother, after spending 48 hrs in an ICU made me laugh out loud when he talked about the night RN who was there when he went into a rapid afib, HR-160. My brother was scared to death, felt like his heart was pounding out of his chest. He said to me "John was great, I don't know what I would of done. You don't know how important the nurses are." That's what made me laugh, I did spend 4 years as the ICU RN on nights. I hope you go to the ICU, it'll make you a better MD if that's your choice.

[jcaSRNA]

Absolutely 6hip. Great post. You're right, didn't have any issues with Nathan's goals, it was just the seemingly arrogant dialogue of the posts that I took issue with. I don't mean to be harsh, but I'll bet it was not just me thinking the thoughts I posted. Nathan, just remember your audience here on this website. Some people here were very proud bedside RN's for quite awhile (ICU, etc.) before making the jump to anesthesia. And last time I checked, you live your life by making plans and setting goals - that's just how you operate right? You are in nursing school right? You DID plan that and weren't forced into it correct? I hope you take all the information provided to you in these posts and process it well. This is a very intelligent group of people here with excellent advice to offer and do so very willingly. Have a good one all.

[NathanDH]

Absolutely 6hip. Great post. You're right, didn't have any issues with Nathan's goals, it was just the seemingly arrogant dialogue of the posts that I took issue with. I don't mean to be harsh, but I'll bet it was not just me thinking the thoughts I posted. Nathan, just remember your audience here on this website. Some people here were very proud bedside RN's for quite awhile (ICU, etc.) before making the jump to anesthesia. And last time I checked, you live your life by making plans and setting goals - that's just how you operate right? You are in nursing school right? You DID plan that and weren't forced into it correct? I hope you take all the information provided to you in these posts and process it well. This is a very intelligent group of people here with excellent advice to offer and do so very willingly. Have a good one all.
Thanks, I understand where you are coming from, and my post did come off as arrogant, I just hope you understand that it was not my intention. I suppose the wording was not quite right.

[rnanes]

I guess my thinking goes back to the very basics of it all, Do you want to be a nurse or a doctor??? Both involve 2 very different perspectives of care. Although I am a brand new CRNA, I will always remember where i came from and the basics of being a nurse. This forms the essence of becoming or evolving into a CRNA. ( I was a nruse for 13 years before i became a crna). Julie

[ed3]

Thanks, I understand where you are coming from, and my post did come off as arrogant, I just hope you understand that it was not my intention. I suppose the wording was not quite right.


You kind of remind me of myself.


I see you have figured out that this is not the best place to share those views. ;) Good luck.

[icudoucme?]

NathanDH,
I don't feel as though you are arrogant. I think you are trying to examine the issues that all of us go through trying to decide what you are going to be when you grow up. I know I did some of this thinking myself. In fact, I am a very late bloomer (47) to have finally decided on a career path.

But consider, these years and these experiences, be it ICU, or med school, etc. are all part of the life you will look back on later as being some very rich experiences that shaped you into the practitioner you ended up being. I imagine you may be anticipating not being happy in some of these experiences. I try not to think in terms of "happy" or not when it comes to trying to figure this stuff out. I try to think in terms of fullfillment, purpose, etc. There have been times when I wasn't exactly happy. But I would look at the alternatives I had around me for working, going in a different direction, taking on a different goal. I just couldn't see myself doing anything else. And I'm so glad I stuck with the plan.

Another thing is, if you want to do flight nursing for a while, why not? It will only make you better for the next phase of your journey. What's the rush? Work, live, make decisions five years at a time. You will end up at the end of the five year plan and maybe decide a different course. Are you in your 20's? Early 30's? You have plenty of time. I just worked with a guy who is in his 50s, a CRNA who decided he wanted a little change of pace and went to the police academy in the evenings. Now he runs patrole on his days off!

[ed3]

It is rare, while the "minimum requirement" is one year why would an anesthesia program take a novice when they have more qualified applicants?
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Although it is somewhat rare, it does happen.

[nojrevorg]

Lack of interest in the foundational years = bad nursing = bad news.

I totally agree with this. you might add on the end= bad CRNA applicant. Nathan. I understand your goal of 5 yrs ect. Dont let time get in the way of the knowledge base you need to be a good practitioner. Learn as much as you can. You need to go to work as well. You will realize shortly that you dont know what you are doing when you start out as a Nurse. And believe me it shows. You need to have a attitude that you are willing to learn, and even more willing to understand what your limitations are as a new RN. The ICU is a great place to learn, and there are more than one ICU> For instance you could be a nurse for 5 years in Trauma ICU, and go to a Open Heart recovery and become a Novice again. There are so many intricacies that go into all the different care modalities for each patient population, ther is no way you can learn it all and be "complacent" . I wanted to do CRNA because I loved Surgery, as well as Critical Care. Respiratory and Neurophysiology have always intrigued me. Dont get bogged down by a time line. Learn and Have Fun.

[MmacFN]

ed

Sharing views is recommended. However, dont be surprised when your views are not always echoed. Many people are coming to anesthesia school now for exactly one reason $$$. They are often the ones who "only" became and RN to become a CRNA. I would submit that there are very few people who only became an RN to be a CRNA in general and that the majority of those who do are hunting the $$$.

If sometimes it appears that people here who are passionate about what it means to be a CRNA get frustrated or short with those looking for the shortcuts to the "big bucks" (or appear to fit the stereotype) it's because those are not the people who will further or protect the profession.

Those in it for the money will never fight for the profession itself. They will not have any passion for what it means to be a CRNA and will not be there when CRNA rights need to be defended. These are the people who will work as "knob turners" for the MDAs with an attitude of "look what i get paid for sitting on my ass all day". They will always be dependent practitioners. They will always need to call the "doctor" when something is unusual because they will have no experience to fall back on. They will always be the ones saying "dont rock the boat" when hard decisions need to be made about the direction of the profession.

Many people are looking for shortcuts. Well, while there may be some schools who will take the inexperienced I would suggest those schools are doing a disservice to the profession. I have heard many say how they feel "prepared" after a year. Well, anyone who has experience knows that is certainly not the case. It always comes back to the old saying "you dont know what you dont know", which rings as true today as it did when i was told it as a 1st year RN after being cocky.

In anycase, while it may not always be popular or what someone wants to hear people will get the truth here as opposed to just allowing someone to live in ignorance. Isnt that better?

Edisto:

You are neither a CRNA/SRNA or even as RN as far as I can tell yet you are quick to slight the opinions of those who are clearly more experienced and have been there. Why is that exactly? What makes you assume you have it "down pat" when you have not achieved the 1st step?


You kind of remind me of myself.


I see you have figured out that this is not the best place to share those views. ;) Good luck.

[ed3]

ed

Sharing views is recommended. However, dont be surprised when your views are not always echoed. Many people are coming to anesthesia school now for exactly one reason $$$. They are often the ones who "only" became and RN to become a CRNA. I would submit that there are very few people who only became an RN to be a CRNA in general and that the majority of those who do are hunting the $$$.

If sometimes it appears that people here who are passionate about what it means to be a CRNA get frustrated or short with those looking for the shortcuts to the "big bucks" (or appear to fit the stereotype) it's because those are not the people who will further or protect the profession.

Those in it for the money will never fight for the profession itself. They will not have any passion for what it means to be a CRNA and will not be there when CRNA rights need to be defended. These are the people who will work as "knob turners" for the MDAs with an attitude of "look what i get paid for sitting on my ass all day". They will always be dependent practitioners. They will always need to call the "doctor" when something is unusual because they will have no experience to fall back on. They will always be the ones saying "dont rock the boat" when hard decisions need to be made about the direction of the profession.

Many people are looking for shortcuts. Well, while there may be some schools who will take the inexperienced I would suggest those schools are doing a disservice to the profession. I have heard many say how they feel "prepared" after a year. Well, anyone who has experience knows that is certainly not the case. It always comes back to the old saying "you dont know what you dont know", which rings as true today as it did when i was told it as a 1st year RN after being cocky.

In anycase, while it may not always be popular or what someone wants to hear people will get the truth here as opposed to just allowing someone to live in ignorance. Isnt that better?

Edisto:

You are neither a CRNA/SRNA or even as RN as far as I can tell yet you are quick to slight the opinions of those who are clearly more experienced and have been there. Why is that exactly? What makes you assume you have it "down pat" when you have not achieved the 1st step?

I will attempt to address your comments in the order they were stated.

I can only speak for myself when I say that it’s not a matter of wanting people to agree with you. You can disagree with someone without saying, “dude, go away, come back when you are relevant”. This type of behavior isn’t exactly the epitome of professionalism (in which CRNAs pride themselves on).

What is wrong with “only” becoming a RN to become a CRNA? What is wrong with becoming a CRNA for the money?

Why do you think that those in it for the money will never fight for the profession itself? What makes you think they won’t have any passion to be a CRNA or be unwilling to defend the profession? What makes you think they will be “knob turners” and dependent practitioners? I’m sure there are people who did not become a CRNA solely for the money who are dependent practitioners and prefer to keep things status quo. The reason someone decides to become a CRNA is not indicative of how they choose to practice. It is a slippery slope when you try to ostracize those who chose to become a CRNA for reasons that differ from your own. I would not be interested in becoming a CRNA and having that much responsibility for 30k a year; so I guess I am one the people you do not want in the profession. When I was deciding on a career, I looked at the money, and then looked at the job itself. I know some people would do it the other way around, and I can respect that. In other words, yes, I like money. The more I have, the more I am able to do (vacation, shop, charity, invest). Money does not make you happy, but it makes life a lot more comfortable. Some people don’t know what its like to not have money, so it is impossible for them to understand how others are motivated by money.


How do you really know why someone chose to become a CRNA? I bet its not always as obvious as one would think.

There are many practicing RNs who do not even know what a CRNA is, or if they do, they have no idea what all being a CRNA entails. Some of them find out about CRNAs (and doubling their salary) after they have been practicing for 10 years. I’m sure there are plenty of RNs who would not be interested in becoming a CRNA if it did not promise an increase in pay (or they may be interested in the job of a CRNA, but are unwilling to make the sacrifice if there is no other incentive). This is not true for all RNs, but I bet its true for a lot of them.


The schools are following the guidelines set forth by the AANA…so is the organization that is in place to defend (among other things) CRNAs doing a disservice to CRNAs?

How is minimal experience a short cut? Some people meet the minimum requirements, some people exceed them. People who do not exceed the requirements are not taking a short cut.

I’m sure most new RNs are aware that they are not as knowledgeable (on average) as someone with more experience. I don’t know why some people seem to think otherwise. Somewhere down the line, someone thought one year was enough, and it has yet to be changed.

There is a difference between sharing the truth, and being “bullied”. My comment to Nathan was not based on hearing the truth, it was based on the lack of courtesy others have when attempting to convey the truth.

When have I slighted the opinions of others with more experience? What makes you think I feel I have it "down pat"? I don't have to be a SRNA/CRNA/RN to make observations about a profession I am interested in.

[jcaSRNA]

I will attempt to address your comments in the order they were stated.

I can only speak for myself when I say that it’s not a matter of wanting people to agree with you. You can disagree with someone without saying, “dude, go away, come back when you are relevant”. This type of behavior isn’t exactly the epitome of professionalism (in which CRNAs pride themselves on).

What is wrong with “only” becoming a RN to become a CRNA? What is wrong with becoming a CRNA for the money?

Why do you think that those in it for the money will never fight for the profession itself? What makes you think they won’t have any passion to be a CRNA or be unwilling to defend the profession? What makes you think they will be “knob turners” and dependent practitioners? I’m sure there are people who did not become a CRNA solely for the money who are dependent practitioners and prefer to keep things status quo. The reason someone decides to become a CRNA is not indicative of how they choose to practice. It is a slippery slope when you try to ostracize those who chose to become a CRNA for reasons that differ from your own. I would not be interested in becoming a CRNA and having that much responsibility for 30k a year; so I guess I am one the people you do not want in the profession. When I was deciding on a career, I looked at the money, and then looked at the job itself. I know some people would do it the other way around, and I can respect that. In other words, yes, I like money. The more I have, the more I am able to do (vacation, shop, charity, invest). Money does not make you happy, but it makes life a lot more comfortable. Some people don’t know what its like to not have money, so it is impossible for them to understand how others are motivated by money.


How do you really know why someone chose to become a CRNA? I bet its not always as obvious as one would think.

There are many practicing RNs who do not even know what a CRNA is, or if they do, they have no idea what all being a CRNA entails. Some of them find out about CRNAs (and doubling their salary) after they have been practicing for 10 years. I’m sure there are plenty of RNs who would not be interested in becoming a CRNA if it did not promise an increase in pay (or they may be interested in the job of a CRNA, but are unwilling to make the sacrifice if there is no other incentive). This is not true for all RNs, but I bet its true for a lot of them.


The schools are following the guidelines set forth by the AANA…so is the organization that is in place to defend (among other things) CRNAs doing a disservice to CRNAs?

How is minimal experience a short cut? Some people meet the minimum requirements, some people exceed them. People who do not exceed the requirements are not taking a short cut.

I’m sure most new RNs are aware that they are not as knowledgeable (on average) as someone with more experience. I don’t know why some people seem to think otherwise. Somewhere down the line, someone thought one year was enough, and it has yet to be changed.

There is a difference between sharing the truth, and being “bullied”. My comment to Nathan was not based on hearing the truth, it was based on the lack of courtesy others have when attempting to convey the truth.

When have I slighted the opinions of others with more experience? What makes you think I feel I have it "down pat"? I don't have to be a SRNA/CRNA/RN to make observations about a profession I am interested in.

Well Ed,

I did make the first quote and did use the word "dude" in that post, but not in that sentence. My meaning of saying that was to address the fact that his post stating something to the effect that anything less than CRNA status in the realm of nursing was just not for him. It is subtly demeaning, probably unintentional on his part, but that was my reaction to it. To make a statement like that when you have ZERO experience in any setting related to CRNA practice doesn't come across very well when we all have done our time as ICU RN's. Not to mention CRNA practice is not unlike ICU nursing, so if you want to be a CRNA, shouldn't you be a little excited about the ICU?

My post was not unprofessional and in no way was it "bullying" as you stated. Not all posts have to "soft and fuzzy critcism" - some may need to be a bit more pointed as to convey a message.

For the record, Nathan took it fine, sorry you didn't.

[ed3]

Well Ed,

I did make the first quote and did use the word "dude" in that post, but not in that sentence. My meaning of saying that was to address the fact that his post stating something to the effect that anything less than CRNA status in the realm of nursing was just not for him. It is subtly demeaning, probably unintentional on his part, but that was my reaction to it. To make a statement like that when you have ZERO experience in any setting related to CRNA practice doesn't come across very well when we all have done our time as ICU RN's. Not to mention CRNA practice is not unlike ICU nursing, so if you want to be a CRNA, shouldn't you be a little excited about the ICU?
My post was not unprofessional and in no way was it "bullying" as you stated. Not all posts have to "soft and fuzzy critcism" - some may need to be a bit more pointed as to convey a message.

For the record, Nathan took it fine, sorry you didn't.

Ok jcaSRNA, you didn’t say dude in that sentence...


It seems you have no problem calling someone on something you feel is wrong, but if someone does the same to you, you respond with (another) condescending remark. For the record, how Nathan took it was not the point. I took the post fine, but I see it for the rude and unprofessional post it was. Agree to disagree. Good luck in the rest of your program.

[MmacFN]

Hey Ed

Ill try and reply.


You can disagree with someone without saying, “dude, go away, come back when you are relevant”. This type of behavior isn’t exactly the epitome of professionalism (in which CRNAs pride themselves on).
I didnt really see this occurring. It is certainly not anyones intent.


What is wrong with “only” becoming a RN to become a CRNA? What is wrong with becoming a CRNA for the money?
From an individuals personal perspective nothing. From the bigger picture perspective everything. The majority (not all) of ppl entering the profession for these reasons are bypassing large parts OF the profession.

1) foundation in experienced nursing practice. The reason the experience time was instituted is b/c of the ever expanding and complicated roles of the RN. The more you come in with, the more you leave the program with. Your experience is the foundation upon which your anesthesia education is built. A house is only as as strong as the foundation no matter how great the frame is. Those who see RN as a means to an end will rarely excel in clinical nursing. Ive seen them and preceptored them. They have little interest in anything except getting through the 1 year to get to the end goal and rarely learn the "whys" of anything as they are still trying to remember the check boxes of the protocol sheets. Learning the 'whys' comes later in practice.

2) While everyone works for money a profession is sustained and defended by passion and investment. If your prime motivator is money then working many hours for free (like i do for this website) will rarely be appealing. Where is the short term gain there? You see, those who rush to get the "one year" minimum are often not interested in long term, if they were then one year wouldnt be enough.


Why do you think that those in it for the money will never fight for the profession itself? What makes you think they won’t have any passion to be a CRNA or be unwilling to defend the profession?

Some might but most wont. Those who make decisions based on money do not often do things for FREE. Political activism is time consuming and free. Since many of them will also be looking for the most pay and the least work, they will be working in highly MDA controlled limited practice. Every action by the AANA will be seen as negative to the MDAs. Those who have chosen jobs for money wont want to be "banging down doors" and pissing off their MDA employers. Afterall, they might make less money down the road right?


What makes you think they will be “knob turners” and dependent practitioners?

Not all will be but it stands to reason. Those who make the decision to take the shortest route to CRNA school, not because its the best way but because its the fastest way to make money, will be those who choose jobs in the same manner. Often this involves choosing a position where one makes the most money doing the least work with the least responsibility. This will always be an ACT practice and likely a highly limited one. These are the same people who say they dont care if they do the regionals since "they dont get paid more to do them". By giving up this skill to the MDAs you instantly limit your practice and your services below that of an MDA. That makes someone a dependent practitioner. I would take a 20K paycut to work to full scope of practice as a CRNA, the monetary oriented person will take a job where the highest pay/signon bonus is.

Secondly, those who have but one year of practice will have extremely limited experience to draw from. I have coded literally hundreds of patients. Ive seen thousands of conditions and drugs, experienced some of the most critical patients. When something goes awry THAT is the experience i will draw on to make differential diagnosis and treatment. Even if you cover all this in CRNA school none of it is common in anesthesia and so little of it will come to you like second nature when the times comes. That being the case these people will be ill equip to ever work independently and also be the ones who are calling the "doctor" he most for help (or worse still not calling the doctor and making the wrong decision).


I’m sure there are people who did not become a CRNA solely for the money who are dependent practitioners and prefer to keep things status quo.

absolutely, but i would suggest there is a disproportionate number in the "money" category.


It is a slippery slope when you try to ostracize those who chose to become a CRNA for reasons that differ from your own. I would not be interested in becoming a CRNA and having that much responsibility for 30k a year; so I guess I am one the people you do not want in the profession.
Well i dont think its a slippery slope at all. If your mother had to get anesthesia and was a complicated case d/t a complicated medical history would you prefer her to be put to sleep by someone with alot of experience to draw on when things go wrong or someone with little to none? Thats a rhetorical question since the answer is self evident.

If you are asking me personally Id rather fewer applicants with excellent experience than thousands of applicants with no experience. What you dont realize is that the vast majority of CRNAs with >10 yrs experience were making only 5K more a year than the average RN when they started. I took a job flying because it was a significant jump up in autonomy, responsibility and practice even though i took a 15K paycut from my full time hospital job. I do believe that motivation is an indicator. Not for everyone as there are exceptions to they rule, but for most.

Each CRNA is a delegate of the profession and represents all CRNAs in their daily practice. When horrible mistakes are made because of inexperienced providers it reflects on ALL CRNAs. Yoga once said to me that CRNAs have to be better than MDAs simply because we are nurses and they are LOOKING for reasons to slam us and eradicate independent practice. Her statement sums up the entire political reality of the profession.


When I was deciding on a career, I looked at the money, and then looked at the job itself. I know some people would do it the other way around, and I can respect that.
Sure, nothing wrong with looking into things this way at all. Its when the decision is made to take the shortest route to this goal that issues arise.

To play devils advocate against my own argument I could easily say that many practitioners are initially drawn to anesthesia school for the money and have plans of one year then apply. Many however, so actually decide to stay longer as an RN as they begin to realize what little they really know at the end of one year (and actually love their jobs!). So many great CRNAs come out of this initial desire. But then, these are not the ppl with just one year when they enter either.


How do you really know why someone chose to become a CRNA? I bet its not always as obvious as one would think.

Very true, im making general observatons based on experience.


Some of them find out about CRNAs (and doubling their salary) after they have been practicing for 10 years. I’m sure there are plenty of RNs who would not be interested in becoming a CRNA if it did not promise an increase in pay (or they may be interested in the job of a CRNA, but are unwilling to make the sacrifice if there is no other incentive). This is not true for all RNs, but I bet its true for a lot of them.
Absolutely! But then they already have 10 years of experience. Since anesthesia is a step "up" in autonomy and responsibility there should be a pay increase. These are not the people we are really talking about tho. They didnt get into nursing solely to be a CRNA and rush through the first year to goto anesthesia school for the money. Two different animals.


The schools are following the guidelines set forth by the AANA…so is the organization that is in place to defend (among other things) CRNAs doing a disservice to CRNAs?
If it was up to me the min. experience would be 3 years and all schools would be required to have a written exam for entrance as well as a case scenario oral board. I'd get rid of the GRE since its only predictive of making more money for the GRE people and nothing else. Acceptance for an interview would continue to be acute care experience including ER, ICU, Flight. So the short answer in my opinon is that this needs to change and its something i plan on working toward in order to enhance the profession.


How is minimal experience a short cut? Some people meet the minimum requirements, some people exceed them. People who do not exceed the requirements are not taking a short cut.

That is true, it isnt a short cut. On the other hand, "minimum" is never what you want in someone holding your life in their hands is it?


There is a difference between sharing the truth, and being “bullied”. My comment to Nathan was not based on hearing the truth, it was based on the lack of courtesy others have when attempting to convey the truth.
Well yes, it is always best to be nicer. However, there are always times when passion overcomes consideration. It happens.


When have I slighted the opinions of others with more experience? What makes you think I feel I have it "down pat"? I don't have to be a SRNA/CRNA/RN to make observations about a profession I am interested in.
I make that observation based on some of the posts you have made in the past in response to others. While you are totally correct one does not have to be an RN/SRNA/CRNA to make observations about a profession it is also true that those will be limited in regards to the profession. Not that they are wrong to make, just uninformed.

I appreciate your posts, dont get me wrong. They are well thought out and often make great challenges which force everyone to look critically at the topic. But let me tell you, the preceptors, CRNA and MDA alike have often commented to me in clinical that the difference between students with experience and those without is night and day and tho both will be "CRNA" when they pass the big test at the end they will not be equal. That has an impact on how people see you, how you perform and more importantly on patients.

Its all relative ;)

[jcaSRNA]

Ok jcaSRNA, you didn’t say dude in that sentence...


It seems you have no problem calling someone on something you feel is wrong, but if someone does the same to you, you respond with (another) condescending remark. For the record, how Nathan took it was not the point. I took the post fine, but I see it for the rude and unprofessional post it was. Agree to disagree. Good luck in the rest of your program.

Ed,

I was simply addressing your post and wanted to explain my comments to Nathan that you took exception to. I sincerely don't know what you thought was a "condescending" remark in my message to you, clearly we will have to agree to disagree.

[ed3]

Ed,

I was simply addressing your post and wanted to explain my comments to Nathan that you took exception to. I sincerely don't know what you thought was a "condescending" remark in my message to you, clearly we will have to agree to disagree.


I apologize if I misunderstood you. :)

[ed3]

This is going to be very hard to read because I ran out of patience.

Hey Ed


Ill try and reply.


I didnt really see this occurring. It is certainly not anyones intent.

Ok, I will have my eyes checked.

From an individuals personal perspective nothing. From the bigger picture perspective everything. The majority (not all) of ppl entering the profession for these reasons are bypassing large parts OF the profession.

1) foundation in experienced nursing practice. The reason the experience time was instituted is b/c of the ever expanding and complicated roles of the RN. The more you come in with, the more you leave the program with. Your experience is the foundation upon which your anesthesia education is built. A house is only as as strong as the foundation no matter how great the frame is. Those who see RN as a means to an end will rarely excel in clinical nursing. Ive seen them and preceptored them. They have little interest in anything except getting through the 1 year to get to the end goal and rarely learn the "whys" of anything as they are still trying to remember the check boxes of the protocol sheets. Learning the 'whys' comes later in practice.

2) While everyone works for money a profession is sustained and defended by passion and investment. If your prime motivator is money then working many hours for free (like i do for this website) will rarely be appealing. Where is the short term gain there? You see, those who rush to get the "one year" minimum are often not interested in long term, if they were then one year wouldnt be enough.

When I look at the whole picture, I am taking into consideration that many practicing CRNAs were not required to have acute care experience. This was at a time when anesthesia was not as safe as it is today. Many of the great CRNAs today became great CRNAs by practicing as CRNAs.
1) I see nursing as a means to an end, and I would wish you could hear what my instructors, clinical instructors, and (most importantly) patients say about me. You would never know that I am “only” becoming a RN to become a CRNA. My nursing program is notorious for having students understand the “why’s”. I understand not all BSN programs are like this, but last semester I sometimes felt I knew more about what was going on than the RN on the medsurg floor. I’m not saying that to be arrogant, it was an honest observation. Learning the why’s later in practice is not necessarily a given. I remember you saying yourself that most RNs are “protocol followers”. Some people are willing to go the extra mile to find out why, some aren’t. Some people with 20 years of experience might know exactly what to do from experience, but that doesn’t mean they know why they are doing it. Having said that, I agree that having a good foundation is important.


2)Well, I guess I am some kind of freak. A few other students and myself created an unofficial website as a resource for every nursing and pre-nursing student in the university. I wouldn’t exactly consider what I do “working many hours for free”, but I do put time and effort in to the website. I am interested in the long term, which is one of the reasons I want to make my road to CRNA as efficient as possible. I want to have my career established by my mid-late 20’s, not just beginning at 37 (nothing wrong with that, just now what I want for myself).


Some might but most wont. Those who make decisions based on money do not often do things for FREE. Political activism is time consuming and free. Since many of them will also be looking for the most pay and the least work, they will be working in highly MDA controlled limited practice. Every action by the AANA will be seen as negative to the MDAs. Those who have chosen jobs for money wont want to be "banging down doors" and pissing off their MDA employers. Afterall, they might make less money down the road right?

I stay on top of everything that goes on politically, often asking a friend (who happens to be a CRNA) what is going on. I also spend time looking up what I can online. I am not a subservient person, so I doubt I will look for the job that is the most restrictive. I doubt I will care who I piss off, although my goal is never to intentionally piss anyone off. The main reason I am interested in becoming a CRNA is for the money. I say “I”, because I am one of the people you are referencing. Having a fulfilling career comes second to making money (I am a horrible person, I know). I have even been told that I should not be worrying about this right now, which I think is crazy because I want to know what I am getting in to. I put 110% in to everything I do.


Not all will be but it stands to reason. Those who make the decision to take the shortest route to CRNA school, not because its the best way but because its the fastest way to make money, will be those who choose jobs in the same manner. Often this involves choosing a position where one makes the most money doing the least work with the least responsibility. This will always be an ACT practice and likely a highly limited one. These are the same people who say they dont care if they do the regionals since "they dont get paid more to do them". By giving up this skill to the MDAs you instantly limit your practice and your services below that of an MDA. That makes someone a dependent practitioner. I would take a 20K paycut to work to full scope of practice as a CRNA, the monetary oriented person will take a job where the highest pay/signon bonus is.

Secondly, those who have but one year of practice will have extremely limited experience to draw from. I have coded literally hundreds of patients. Ive seen thousands of conditions and drugs, experienced some of the most critical patients. When something goes awry THAT is the experience i will draw on to make differential diagnosis and treatment. Even if you cover all this in CRNA school none of it is common in anesthesia and so little of it will come to you like second nature when the times comes. That being the case these people will be ill equip to ever work independently and also be the ones who are calling the "doctor" he most for help (or worse still not calling the doctor and making the wrong decision).

I’m not sure where you are getting this information from, but I will take your word for it. However, the ACT practice is supported by the AANA. Is it frowned upon for people to exclusively work in the ACT model? If so, why? That is the way most CRNAs practice. Would you like to see more CRNAs get away from the ACT model? I would like to work to the full scope of practice as a CRNA. I am in it for the money, but I am not greedy. I would be happy making 120k as opposed to 160k if it meant I would be the one making the decisions. I know this is probably the going to seem like a dumb argument, but when you look at how MDAs are trained, they gain their experience by practicing their specialty. (I hate to compare the two)

Well i dont think its a slippery slope at all. If your mother had to get anesthesia and was a complicated case d/t a complicated medical history would you prefer her to be put to sleep by someone with alot of experience to draw on when things go wrong or someone with little to none? Thats a rhetorical question since the answer is self evident.

If you are asking me personally Id rather fewer applicants with excellent experience than thousands of applicants with no experience. What you dont realize is that the vast majority of CRNAs with >10 yrs experience were making only 5K more a year than the average RN when they started. I took a job flying because it was a significant jump up in autonomy, responsibility and practice even though i took a 15K paycut from my full time hospital job. I do believe that motivation is an indicator. Not for everyone as there are exceptions to they rule, but for most.

A part of the reason I say it is a slippery slope because you are criticizing people for “following the rules”.

Each CRNA is a delegate of the profession and represents all CRNAs in their daily practice. When horrible mistakes are made because of inexperienced providers it reflects on ALL CRNAs. Yoga once said to me that CRNAs have to be better than MDAs simply because we are nurses and they are LOOKING for reasons to slam us and eradicate independent practice. Her statement sums up the entire political reality of the profession.

I hate to single out a particular person, but how did she get to be the great provider that she is today?

Sure, nothing wrong with looking into things this way at all. Its when the decision is made to take the shortest route to this goal that issues arise.

To play devils advocate against my own argument I could easily say that many practitioners are initially drawn to anesthesia school for the money and have plans of one year then apply. Many however, so actually decide to stay longer as an RN as they begin to realize what little they really know at the end of one year (and actually love their jobs!). So many great CRNAs come out of this initial desire. But then, these are not the ppl with just one year when they enter either.

Ok, I see that you don’t agree with people taking the shortest route. When the requirement is 3 years, there will be people with five years who are “better”. People with only three years will still be taking the shortest route based on the minimum requirements. I do think it is interesting that the requirements for flight nursing are more rigourous than those required for admission to CRNA School.


Absolutely! But then they already have 10 years of experience. Since anesthesia is a step "up" in autonomy and responsibility there should be a pay increase. These are not the people we are really talking about tho. They didnt get into nursing solely to be a CRNA and rush through the first year to goto anesthesia school for the money. Two different animals.

Yes, two different animals. I was trying to make a point with that, but I can’t seem to communicate that thought right now.

That is true, it isnt a short cut. On the other hand, "minimum" is never what you want in someone holding your life in their hands is it?

It depends on the person. I would rather have someone who got accepted to CRNA School with 2 years of experience, and had practiced as a CRNA for 5 years, than someone who had 5 years as an RN, and had practiced as a CRNA for only one year.

I make that observation based on some of the posts you have made in the past in response to others. While you are totally correct one does not have to be an RN/SRNA/CRNA to make observations about a profession it is also true that those will be limited in regards to the profession. Not that they are wrong to make, just uninformed.

Like what? :)

Maybe the CRNAs I have shadowed are just being polite when they encourage me to apply after 1-2 year in a busy ICU.

[Trauma49]

Just wondering what survey was that from?

[MmacFN]

hey

I replied to your PM but for everyone else's benefit those stats came from the demographics part of the survey I did which I plan to write a paper around. Though there is also a stat on the AANA website somewhere (i forget now) that the average SRNA has 7 years before starting school. It is in one of their papers on shortages.

[gthcrna]

As a CRNA educator and Program Director it is VERY dependent on the school you apply to as what your chances of getting admitted are. I would agree VCU is difficult to get into. It is usually at the top of the "Top 10" CRNA schools in the country. I don't really put a lot of credit in the scientific method that US News and World Report put into doing their rankings (they simply rely on the subjective opinions of all CRNA program administrators and assistant administrators that respond to their survey). Dr. Fallacaro has put together one of the finest programs that is around. It has significant national attention and draw. There are plenty of programs that have little to no visibility except to a local audience. They may have only 2-3 applicants to position available. In Florida there are now 8 programs with a 9th starting next year. Many programs share a similar applicant pool. When you look at it that way there is an even higher likelihood you will get in somewhere if you meet their criteria. Some of the "megaprograms" take upwards of 80-100 per year. The program I am associated with takes around 30 a year, but we have to backing of the dean that if we cannot find 30 qualified students, we can downsize. It is all about quality, not quantity in my opinion. When choosing a CRNA program there are some very important things to take into consideration.

1. What is the degree that is offered and does that fit your needs? Don't go to a nursing based MSN program if you don't want to take MSN core courses. They are required by all that I am aware of and include nursing theory. I am not putting those programs down. I am a graduate of one and had a phenomenal well rounded education. Considering I have an ADN, BSN, MSN, and DNSc., I am pretty fluent in nursing. My argument with people who say they don't want all of that is "you are still a nurse, aren't you?" At least that is what the board of nursing that licenses you thinks...

2. Location, location, location. Don't go to a program in an area you don't want to be. If you relocate to go to school, consider that you have left your support systems far away. Some places are very expensive to live (like Miami) and can impact your ability to afford being able to live comfortably.

3. Make sure that the degree actually counts. There are programs out there who offer degrees without the benefit of Regional Accreditation. If the college/university is not regionally accredited, you can't use that degree for going on if you choose to. Regional accreditation (in Florida it is done by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools - SACS) guarantees that your degree is credible. Ask the CRNA program if you are in doubt.

4. Never put all of your eggs in one basket. You may bomb the interview at your school of choice. If you want it bad enough, you are willing to either move to get it or try again the following year.

5. Never pass up the opportunity to speak to current students in that program when you interview. If they are keeping them away from you, that is a red flag. Their current students should be involved in the interview process. If for no other reason, to entertain you while you are waiting your turn. If they are miserable, most likely you will be to. They have a tendency to open up if you ask them.

6. Ask what kinds of experiences students have and what techniques they perform. How many cases and hours? You will never hear anyone as a new graduate say they had too much clinical preparation.

7. Is there travel involved? Some programs I am knowledgeable of have a lottery system of deciding who goes on the long road trips. If you planned on being in one place and are told you will be attending clinical 150 miles away, that could pose a problem, especially if you have a family.

Just some thoughts (even though I kind of strayed from the original subject...

[MmacFN]

Hey gth

all things being equal what is your opinion on years of experience in relation to strength as a CRNA?

[NathanDH]

I was speaking with a CRNA today, and he reccomended to start in SICU because of the drips and swans, and other things that I should see before school. Would you guys think this would be a good place before school?

[gthcrna]

Mike,

It is funny you ask. My personal opinion is it is more about the individual than it is the experience. I have had students who have 1 year who do dynamite because they are quick on the uptake. I have had students with 10 years of ICU who really struggle. I think 2-3 years is about the average for our program, and that seems to be plenty. Also I find those who do CVICU seem to have an easier time making the transition. Neonatal and Peds ICU have the most trouble. So I guess there is really no easy answer. The experiences and repetition of critical skills (vents, titration, invasive monitoring, etc.) seem to make it less of a stretch. I think 1 year is a bit green still, but it is the criteria most programs follow. COA requires 1 year of "acute care experience"... not very specific. Upping the ante and requiring more than the program down the road may keep the highest quality applicants away. It is a fine balance to try to figure out.

Jerry

[MmacFN]

Hey Jerry

I would not be surprised that some of the younger students do better on the multiple choice exams (which we can all agree test nothing but recognition and memorization) however, i have yet to come across a clinical preceptor who felt less than 3 years was adequate. Its a rarity and really, we arent talking about the statistical outliers. This holds true for any part of nursing really or any profession.

I'd say the same thing for those with 10 yrs experience. The person who comes and knows nothing would be a statistical outlier. In general, greater experience at anything will only make u better at the next step and afterward. I am a firm believer that when 'green' people are on their own in the OR one day and something goes wrong they will either default to their nursing experience or spin like a top. I know you have seen this first hand with your previous career.

While upping the ante might keep away those with less experience, i believe that (all things being equal) the product will be better CRNAs. The push for the future is to be more independent and we all kow the demise if the ACT practice in not that far off since it is unsustainable. I just dont see how someone entering CRNA school thats barely run a code, just recently been getting the sick patients without someone watching them like a hawk represents the 'creme of the crop' in nursing capable of working independently. Anesthesia school does not teach you how to be an RN, there is an expectation that you already possess a mastery of that which is then built on (read: experience).


Mike,

It is funny you ask. My personal opinion is it is more about the individual than it is the experience. I have had students who have 1 year who do dynamite because they are quick on the uptake. I have had students with 10 years of ICU who really struggle. I think 2-3 years is about the average for our program, and that seems to be plenty. Also I find those who do CVICU seem to have an easier time making the transition. Neonatal and Peds ICU have the most trouble. So I guess there is really no easy answer. The experiences and repetition of critical skills (vents, titration, invasive monitoring, etc.) seem to make it less of a stretch. I think 1 year is a bit green still, but it is the criteria most programs follow. COA requires 1 year of "acute care experience"... not very specific. Upping the ante and requiring more than the program down the road may keep the highest quality applicants away. It is a fine balance to try to figure out.

Jerry

[MethaneMan]

I'd say yes, Nathan. My personal preference is an ICU in a Level I or Level II Trauma center/Teaching hospital. I like the teaching aspect because I have found it to be a more collegial environment with lots of information sharing, which is what you'll need to meet your goals.

[NathanDH]

I'd say yes, Nathan. My personal preference is an ICU in a Level I or Level II Trauma center/Teaching hospital. I like the teaching aspect because I have found it to be a more collegial environment with lots of information sharing, which is what you'll need to meet your goals.

See the thing this CRNA had told me is that I may want to avoid the teaching hospitals because this could take away autonomy, due to a lot of people coming in the room (residents, etc...) However at the area I am now, it is a mid-sized regional hospital that he said would allow me more autonomy to make decisions myself, which he said would be the most important. So I am not sure if I should go to a larger teaching hospital, or stay here for the more independent practice.

[6hipguns]

I'm clinical faculty, and I wouldn't hang my hat on 3 years of experience. I would say two years are better than one year of experience, but after that it's not a big factor. Actually some with 10-15 years don't do as well, and some do great. Just because someone does have years of experience doesn't mean they won't 'spin like a top', I've seen that happen. It really is the individual, and I see it as an advantage to have younger people enter the profession in some ways. They are the who have time in their career to get a solid clinical background, and then progress to become leaders.

[6hipguns]

Once you're in the ICU in a teaching hospital for awhile,usually a year, then you are often teaching the resident. I think teaching hospitals are great, if you're motivated you can learn so much.

[NathanDH]

Once you're in the ICU in a teaching hospital for awhile,usually a year, then you are often teaching the resident. I think teaching hospitals are great, if you're motivated you can learn so much.

I am expecting to have atleast one years experience on application time, and two years at the beginning of the program I choose. However, my main concern now is what hospital to get my experience in.
If anyone is familiar with McLeod Regional Medical Center, and MUSC I would appreciate any feedback, as far as size, reputation, and also how good you think that would fulfill my needs as a potential applicant.

Thanks,
Nathan

[ed3]

I guess it is easy to be in favor of more experience when you have been working as a RN for 5+ years. Many people have more than 5 years of experience because the thought of becoming a CRNA never crossed their mind, or other circumstances prevented them from applying. I realize this is a whole lot of speculation…but I’d bet if some of these people were able to (or aware of the CRNA option) they would have applied sooner. I say that because some of you get irritated when someone wants to become a RN just to become a CRNA, but you may have felt the same way if you were aware of that option from the beginning. To assume that that becoming a RN just to become a CRNA equates to laziness and mediocrity (which is basically what is being said) is not reasonable. If anything, becoming an RN solely to become a CRNA makes you more motivated. I’m reiterating this point because the people who apply with less experience are likely to be those who knew they wanted to be a CRNA early on (either during or before RN school, or shortly after becoming a RN).

I can understand not wanting to substitute quantity for quality, but if CRNAs fail to fill the void (as far as supply), some other group with zero previous healthcare experience (on average) will. I think patients are better off having a CRNA who spent two years as a RN, than an AA who is not required to have any experience. (Thought process: there are new CRNA programs opening every year, with some programs trying to increase the number of students to meet demand-it is almost inevitable that someone with less than 3 years of expereince will apply and be accepted-there are only so many people with acute care experience and competitive GPAs- if the minimum requirement is increased to 3 years, there will be fewer applicants, which may possibly lead to a decrease in class size-perfect opportunity/reason to open AA programs- hence the increasing odds of the patient ending up with the greater of the two evils). I can see how increasing the minimum requirement to anything over 2 years could backfire.

….Is the DNAP going to add an additional semester to CRNA programs?
It will take a minimum of 9.5 years to become a CRNA if the minimum requirement is increased to 3 years. This is without considering the possibility of a 3 year CRNA program (as opposed to the average of 2.5?).

At some point, it is more practical to go to medical school. I wonder if in the future advanced practice nursing will be viewed more along the lines of a DO.

(BTW-I support the DNAP. I think it will help separate CRNAs from another group that loves to compare themselves to CRNAs). Sorry to hijack your thread OP.

[ethernaut]

….Is the DNAP going to add an additional semester to CRNA programs?

probably more than a semester.

is the DNAP going to be more beneficial?
i think not.
i believe this is a profession the is "mastered" by hands-on in the OR. not by having more classes under your belt.
if you WANT to go on, then it should be a choice.
not a requirement...

[MethaneMan]

I worked in the MICU at MUSC about three years ago. The manager, Natalie, was wonderful and I really did enjoy working there. Only left because we relocated. If you are applying to MUSC or UofSoCarolina, the name will go farther on your app than McLeod. You will get the sickest people in the area there and six hip is right. The residents know very little and you will end up teaching them in the practical application of what you are doing. From them, and mainly the Fellows and Attendings you can get a deeper understanding of Pathophys.

[Nancicrna08]

I'll agree. Starting out in a teaching hospital will give you opportunity to deepen your knowledge base and pathophys associations.
My ICU experience was at a teaching hospital and I felt I learned alot from teaching rounds with the MD's (something you may not get a lot of in other institutions) and I'm not sure I would have gotten the depth of understanding if I were not in a teaching hospital.

I have some friends who work in ICU's (not teaching hospitals) and they titrate drips to effect but do not make the same associations b/w pathophys, cellular level mechanisms of action, overall effects like it was explained to the RN's and residents on rounds.

Definite advantages to both scenarios. You'll have to determine which will best suit your needs.

Good luck in your journey!

[sandman123]

Hi, guys, I have got a question: is it possible for a new graduates find a RN position in ICU? I thought most of them ask for at least one year of experience.

[ORNurse]

Hi, guys, I have got a question: is it possible for a new graduates find a RN position in ICU? I thought most of them ask for at least one year of experience.

It is difficult to get into the unit as a new grad where I work, though many ICUs hire new grads. It would be better to find a unit that only takes on a couple of orientees at a time and has a decent amount of experienced people there to help you. Be careful when you notice a mass hiring of GNs because you will have to compete for experiences, the staff will be exhausted from precepting, and when the group gets off orientation at the same time there may be an unfavorable ratio of many brand new people to a couple experienced people on a given shift. You want to make sure there are enough resource people to answer your questions. Most importantly the staffiing issue and unsafe working conditions will bring a lot of stress on top of an already stressful situation of starting out in the ICU. Being an extern would help you get and do the job.

[DebbieC]

I think the learning curve for everyone entering an anesthesia program is the same as far as the specific anesthesia knowledge and tactile skills go. And that is what clinical preceptors see. I think that Mike must be right that the real test is later on, when everyone knows the anesthesia specifics and tactile skills: My ability to 'put it all together' regarding a patient will be, I can assure you, greater than someone with years experience in ICU that you can count on one hand. That twentysomething might learn the tactile skills faster than me, but my kazillion patient assessments, interventions, etc., etc. can not be duplicated. And, having been an expert in my previous specialty, I am way more able to recognize different level of expertise in anesthesia practice when I see it, EVEN NOW, and absorb those really important aspects of practice like a sponge. Patricia Benner's studies have shown that, when experts switch specialities in nursing, they become experts significantly faster than those novice/competent/proficient nurses who switch specialties. It has something to do with being exquisitely sensitive to knowing what you don't know.....and REALLY wanting to rectify that.

My old-timer 2 cents worth.

[MmacFN]

well said deb!

[sandman123]

It is difficult to get into the unit as a new grad where I work, though many ICUs hire new grads. It would be better to find a unit that only takes on a couple of orientees at a time and has a decent amount of experienced people there to help you. Be careful when you notice a mass hiring of GNs because you will have to compete for experiences, the staff will be exhausted from precepting, and when the group gets off orientation at the same time there may be an unfavorable ratio of many brand new people to a couple experienced people on a given shift. You want to make sure there are enough resource people to answer your questions. Most importantly the staffiing issue and unsafe working conditions will bring a lot of stress on top of an already stressful situation of starting out in the ICU. Being an extern would help you get and do the job.
Thanks for your advice. Have you heard of the nurse residency. Maybe that would also be of help?

[BeachBUM]

nathan

I am currently a SRNA in my second semester. It is hard to get into anesthesia school and it takes a lot of dedication to apply and interview. There is a chance that you will not get into school the first time you apply. Programs like to see that you are dedicated to the profession. I shadowed a CRNA for around 100 hours. It was a little overkill, but in the end it really impressed the schools i interviewed with.

As fas as the Air Force Flight Nurse job.... Be carefull with that and make sure you know the WHOLE job. I was an Active duty Navy nurse and everyone i met in the airforce was a "FLight Nurse". Most i met were flying people from overseas back to the U.S. for Eye appointments and Dental surgery. The patients were all healthy and walking but needed services that the overseas hospitals or clinics did not provide. The flight nurse title is a little misleading. Not saying it is a bad move, but just check and know what you are getting into.

Ben

[ORNurse]

Thanks for your advice. Have you heard of the nurse residency. Maybe that would also be of help?

What is a nurse residency?

There was a study in critical care nurse a couple months back about new grads in the ICU. They were given a specific orientation process over 6 months where benchmarks were put into place. Each step had certain goals and you had to reach them to move to the next level. Maybe this is similar?

[ed3]

I am really beating a dead horse here, but it seems some of you have some resentment toward younger people. It would not be acceptable if I said something like, “although older people have more experience, they have slower reaction times, can’t learn as fast as I can, have a problem adjusting to the role of a student, are too set in their ways etc”.

All of this seems to stem from the idea that people with less experience (often another term for “younger” aeb several posts) are somehow detrimental to the profession.


There are posts such as:


“My ability to 'put it all together' regarding a patient will be, I can assure you, greater than someone with years experience in ICU that you can count on one hand. That twentysomething might learn the tactile skills faster than me, but my kazillion patient assessments, interventions, etc., etc. can not be duplicated. And, having been an expert in my previous specialty, I am way more able to recognize different level of expertise in anesthesia practice when I see it, EVEN NOW, and absorb those really important aspects of practice like a sponge.”


“I would not be surprised that some of the younger students do better on the multiple choice exams (which we can all agree test nothing but recognition and memorization)”

This was a response based on experience, but somehow "age" (i.e. younger student) was brought up. Can a 35 year old not be less experienced?

When there is a person who is perceived to be “older”, it seems it is “ok” for them to know what they want… illustrated here:


“Wanting to become a CRNA fast as possible is not mutually exclusive from wanting to promote the profession or be the best practitioner as possible. I left law school to become a nurse anesthetist. I didn't leave law school to become a ICU RN. I didn't "discover" CRNA's after a career as an RN.

I had only 8 months experience when I applied and didn't have my BSN”

Response:
“yer not really the type of applicant i was thinking of. Im thinking of the kid who graduates high school and looks for the fastest route to CRNA school cause they want to get at the bucks as fast as possible. Yer the exception”

?

I could write a book about this, but I will narrow it down to this: I’m sure there are advantages to being younger, just as there are advantages to being older…it all balances out in the end. I can think of just as many “negatives” to being older, as someone can think of to being “ 20 something” (in reference to the discussion). However, doing so does not do me or anyone else any good.

I am officially letting it go. :) I had to get that off my chest, although I admit I took this slightly out of context.


Please don’t ban me, Mac.

[MmacFN]

heheh

I would never ban you! You ask good questions and dont just "take peoples word for it". Regardless of our differences of opinion its obvious you wont be a "stool monkey" just based on how inquisitive you are here.

I think thats an excellent trait!

I dont like the "age" thing either. When i say experience i mean it more in relation to qualitative experience as opposed to quantitative. There are many 10+ year RNs out there who haven't a clue why they do what they do.

[DebbieC]

I agree that a person can have lots of years of experience and not know alot about why they do what they do. But I think the bell curve probably applies here. Although there are outliers at each end, most people perform as expected. Regardless of age, however, you can't discount experience and you can only get experience by putting in the time.

What hardship is it anyway, asking people to put in a little time being a nurse, before going for an ADVANCED practice nursing role???

And is anyone else horrified at the thought of choosing a life's work by first consulting a salary list???!!!?? Especially a healthcare profession. Where is, as Deepz puts it, the fire in the belly?? I have worked with a number of nurses who do it as a second or third career chosen solely because of the amt of time it took to get an ADN and because it paid better than their previous employment. They absolutely don't give a flying leap about the profession and hardly can motivate to take care of patients. Taking care of ill humans is NOT just like any other job.

Not everyone is like this of course. I have a good friend who worked as a scrub tech for a number of years, and based on that experience, decided she wanted to be a CRNA. She got an ADN, went to work in an CVICU, got her BSN while working fulltime, worked for about 3 years, applied to CRNA school and will make a great CRNA, I'm sure. She never thought of the time in the ICU as a waste of her time, nor as just something to 'get through'. Even she knows that she could have stayed there and continued to learn for quite a while longer, but her career goals lay elsewhere.

I just don't get people who think they want to be CRNAs, but definitely know they DONT want to be nurses and grimace at the thought of the minimum one year requirement. THOSE people should be directed to AA programs.

I really don't think this is an unreasonable viewpoint.

[ed3]

I agree that a person can have lots of years of experience and not know alot about why they do what they do. But I think the bell curve probably applies here. Although there are outliers at each end, most people perform as expected. Regardless of age, however, you can't discount experience and you can only get experience by putting in the time.

I was not disputing that at all.


What hardship is it anyway, asking people to put in a little time being a nurse, before going for an ADVANCED practice nursing role???

I don’t know, Debbie….do you know of someone like that? :)


And is anyone else horrified at the thought of choosing a life's work by first consulting a salary list???!!!?? Especially a healthcare profession. Where is, as Deepz puts it, the fire in the belly?? I have worked with a number of nurses who do it as a second or third career chosen solely because of the amt of time it took to get an ADN and because it paid better than their previous employment. They absolutely don't give a flying leap about the profession and hardly can motivate to take care of patients. Taking care of ill humans is NOT just like any other job.

Well, if being initially attracted to the CRNA profession because of the salary is a crime, then I guess I am guilty. This is the best way I can describe the “money” issue--Before I knew anything about my SO, there was an initial physical attraction that made me want to get to know him better. So we go through the ritual of dating to see if we are a good fit, and see if there is something going on upstairs etc. Now, I was initially physically attracted to my SO, but that is not what is going to make me decide to have a relationship with him (if he has nothing else to offer). If I was not initially physically attracted to my SO, then I more than likely would have never taken an interest in getting to know “the real him”. It wouldn’t matter how attractive he was, if I didn’t like his personality. In other words, yes, the “money” is what initially peaked my interest in the CRNA profession. I shadowed a CRNA before I started nursing school. I fell in love with it and decided that was what I wanted to do. I am now almost a year into nursing school, and still trying to learn all I can about the CRNA profession. It is something that I find interesting, and would be honored to spend my professional life doing.

Just for the record, I was interested in finding out what being a CRNA entailed based on the salary; however, I did not decide I wanted to be a CRNA based on the salary. For instance, if I shadowed a CRNA and wasn’t impressed by what I saw, I would not have decided to begin my path to CRNA based on the salary if I wasn’t interested in the job itself (run-on?). (Although I would not want to be CRNA if it paid 30k a year, regardless of how much I liked it). At the end of the day, I AM working for money, and a career that can provide more of the “stuff I work for” is a good thing in my eyes.

Also, has it ever occurred to you that maybe I realize that “taking care of ill humans not just like any other job”…and maybe (just maybe) that is appealing to me? I don’t say that to be rude…but I’m not sure we share the same intent. Since we are being blunt, I wonder why you feel like you always need to have someone on your side…I’ve noticed that theme in your posts…i.e. “And is anyone else horrified….” I mean no disrespect by that, but the fact that you question my reason for doing something has given me the opportunity to do likewise.

I thought that this could go without saying, but just because someone is attracted to the money, doesn’t mean they don’t care, or don’t have the “fire in their belly”.




Not everyone is like this of course. I have a good friend who worked as a scrub tech for a number of years, and based on that experience, decided she wanted to be a CRNA. She got an ADN, went to work in an CVICU, got her BSN while working fulltime, worked for about 3 years, applied to CRNA school and will make a great CRNA, I'm sure. She never thought of the time in the ICU as a waste of her time, nor as just something to 'get through'. Even she knows that she could have stayed there and continued to learn for quite a while longer, but her career goals lay elsewhere.

Do you think I feel time in the ICU is a waste? If so, you are mistaken.


I just don't get people who think they want to be CRNAs, but definitely know they DONT want to be nurses and grimace at the thought of the minimum one year requirement.

I really don't think this is an unreasonable viewpoint.

Well, I can tell by the first sentence you are not referring to me. I don’t “think” I want to be a CRNA, I “know” I want to be a CRNA. Sarcasm aside, I have never said I did not want to be a RN. I have also never grimaced at the thought of one year of experience. If I felt that way, I would have stated it explicitly. You can take my posts at face value.

The take home message of my post was that each person, regardless of age or experience, has their strengths and weaknesses. Comparing “age groups” does nothing but divide people IMHO. My frustration is not aimed at you, its just a general observation I have made about some people and their perceptions of people of a certain age. As a person who has essentially mentored people older than my parents (not implying that I’m more mature) it is very frustrating when people bring up age. I can’t quite put it into words.


THOSE people should be directed to AA programs.

Do you know of someone who should be directed to an AA program, Debbie? If I didn’t know any better, I would think that you were referring to me. :)


Good luck and happy belated birthday DebbieC. :daz:

[ethernaut]

well, i too will confess that the salary is nice, and it is one of the reasons i was attracted to the profession. you have to admit that when people move on in experience and education, there's a reason (or several). granted, money is nice, but not the be-all-end-all. for example: you can offer me 50$ an hour to work what i used to do, and that would be nice for a while, but would not compensate for the lacking that prevails with such role.
this goes true for whatever.
now, that being said, the salary of CRNA is nice, but i think that the role and autonomy is more attractive.
so, in conclusion:
money is good
happiness is better
this refutes a previous thread re: the enemy of good

[RAYMAN]

And is anyone else horrified at the thought of choosing a life's work by first consulting a salary list???!!!??

Nope. Only about 99% of high school students probably do it. But the real challenge is to find something you are good at, enjoy immensely and get paid for it. That is impossible for most young people. Florence has been dead a long time.

[jjferg]

Wow- Is Age an issue? I did not even think about age until it was brought to my attention. I think it is too bad that it is even brought up in any conversation. I believe everybody is unique and can learn in any situation. If you can not get along with a variety of people, I believe, this profession is not for you. If you can get along with only certain type of gender,race, and age you should find another profession. Learning is continuum throughout life. Learning comes in a variety of experiences. I believe that if you want to be a CRNA, the equation is allot of work and determination. Anybody can do it if they keep trying and do not give up. Everybody, will get through this if they want it bad enough. I do!! I hope I did not offend anybody in my thoughts.

[ethernaut]

Nope. Only about 99% of high school students probably do it. But the real challenge is to find something you are good at, enjoy immensely and get paid for it. That is impossible for most young people. Florence has been dead a long time.

hey man, leave flo alone. she was SO not about the dough !

[RAYMAN]

hey man, leave flo alone. she was SO not about the dough !

Hehe...as I understand it, the history they don't teach you in nursing school about flo is that she and her girls were giving out freebies to aid and comfort the soldiers.....looks like you are right.

[ethernaut]

exactly..
opening a window is FREE !

[DebbieC]

I wonder why you feel like you always need to have someone on your side…I’ve noticed that theme in your posts…i.e. “And is anyone else horrified….”


:pound: :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound:

Now that is a real laugh!

You haven't read enough of my posts......<catching breath.....giggle>

[ed3]

:pound: :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound:

Now that is a real laugh!

You haven't read enough of my posts......<catching breath.....giggle>


Its right there in black and white… :) I don’t want to bring up previous posts… I would be confronting you and not the main issue.

Maybe I didn’t have to ask that, but I was curious…

[ed3]

heheh

I would never ban you! You ask good questions and dont just "take peoples word for it". Regardless of our differences of opinion its obvious you wont be a "stool monkey" just based on how inquisitive you are here.

I think thats an excellent trait!

I dont like the "age" thing either. When i say experience i mean it more in relation to qualitative experience as opposed to quantitative. There are many 10+ year RNs out there who haven't a clue why they do what they do.

:)

[nojrevorg]

How about the brilliant idea of lets take the soldiers off the ground, feed and give them water. Maybe I should wipe the crap off my hands before I stick my hands in this soldiers stump.

Real genius.

[DIGNOUT]

Real genius.

For her time and gender, she was. History also tells of how tough and intelligent she was, and if alive today, I don't think it's unreasonable to suppose she would be a prudent capitalist and demand appropriate compensation for an ancient art that is now a well-researched (and often overworked) science and profession. Times, how they are a changin'.

[Toad]

I am a CRNA Program Director and can give you my 2 cents worth. Doing well in sciences is important. That means a lot. Getting 1000 on your GRE and a 3.6 average with 1 year of ICU will get you an interview in about 80% of the programs in the country. Don't let people scare you off. In Florida there are 8 CRNA programs. We share a common applicant pool. It is not advisable to put all of your eggs in one basket. You never know how an interview will go, and if you don't have some viable alternates and a safety school, you may not make it in.

So how do you go about choosing which CRNA schools to apply to? I believe there are 100+ programs at this time? How many programs should someone apply to at one time?

[ROCRN]

You will never get picked unless you put your name in the hat. Give it a try!