Wake Forest vs. VCU

[SleepyTime13]

Hi-
I was accepted to both of these schools and am having a very hard time choosing. Wake Forest is less expensive, but competes with residents for clinical spots and does not have the DNAP option that VCU offers. I am concerned about financing with the new student loan rules taking effect this year, especially after reading the entire job market forum on here. Any help/opinion is greatly appreciated.

[gasaholic]

don't worry about DNAP program

where does your 'gut' tell you to go?

[bettermj]

don't worry about DNAP program

where does your 'gut' tell you to go?

What he said




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[snaggletooth]

Find out which program provides the best clinical experience (quality, quantity and variety) and go there. It's the single most important factor in any program.

That means finding the one that gives you plenty of hands on experience with spinals, epidurals, regional blocks, central lines, A-lines ... where you won't hear all kinds of excuses why this block or that spinal is "not a good teaching case", which translates as "I have no intention of teaching you anything if i can help it". Do they have any clinical sites where the CRNAs work independently as full service providers? these make for the best learning experiences. Su@ks if they are all ACT settings, but not all ACTs are created equal, some will allow the CRNAs significant autonomy and others are fairly to highly restrictive in what the CRNAs can do independently.

If you haven't done so already, ask to shadow a student during clinical for a day at each program. Pump them with questions. Pay attention to how the CRNAs, MDAs and students all interact. Try to see if what you see jives with what they say. Contact recent graduates of the program. If you don't know any, ask the program director to provide names and contact info. Try to validate everything the program directors say about the program with current and former students. Ask the program director for the actual numbers "grids" of clinical experiences. Get this in writing so you can compare the two programs side by side. Pay attention to overall case numbers, the more the better, but also to the experiences that many programs are unable or unwilling to deliver such as the aforementioned spinals, epidurals, central lines, etc. but also to things like fiberoptic intubations and other alternative airway techniques. And keep in mind that the minimum number required in many cases is a very low bar; e.g. you want 10 times the number required for regional techniques and you want them to be hands on. Simulations are great, but they really don't or shouldn't count.

Anyway, I could get carried away here, ... bottom line is you are in the drivers seat with acceptances from hopefully two good schools, exploit that position ... ask pointed questions, things you may have held back on during the interview ... don't drag out your decision, once it's made, tell the program directors, ... but don't let them rush you either, this is a big decision

and while we tend to make most decisions with our gut in the end, I hope your gut knows how important the clinical rotations will be to your education

[SleepyTime13]

Your post is very helpful, thank you. I did ask a lot of those specific clinical questions during my interview, but it looks like I missed some good ones you bring up. I know that Wake does not offer any rotations with independently working CRNAs while VCU has optional rotations in Appalachia with ind CRNAs. Both claim to have a rotation in regional blocks, and say that they are integrating that more into the program, but I didn't ask for numbers. When asked about the weakest spot in his program, the Wake director did say he thought the OB rotation could be better (which I am assuming is the "epidural" rotation, and this makes me nervous). As far as average total cases VCU= 775 Wake =800. I didn't think to ask for the grids, that will help a lot. Unfortunately I live 3,000 miles from both schools and can't shadow a student....I really wish I had thought of that during the time I was interviewing. Thanks again for your input, it has been very helpful.

[darinblanton]

Sent you a PM.

[KimmyJ]

I'd flip a coin. :) Seriously though, they are both good schools in good cities. I've heard good things about VCU and it seems to always rank high. I'd see if you can't find some CRNAs locally who have attended the schools and ask them. Maybe you can find some recent graduates and ask them.